My Italian love affair has endured for almost half my life. From studying the language at school, to dating (too many) Italian men and then living and working in the country it would be fair to say that I’m a fully paid up member of the Italophile crew. Yet when people ask my ‘but aren’t’ they a bit racist’, I’m always stumped for words.
If you’d asked me ten years ago my answer would most likely have been ‘no’. Yes, some Italians were without a doubt ignorant and even prejudiced, but to define their stance as racism, on my part, would have been too extreme. Any population that all of a sudden comes into contact with foreigners is likely to have a reaction that’s based on fear, even more so Italians who, despite their history of great migrations, tend towards the insular.
Yet there has definitely been a shift in the mood surrounding immigration; it’s not just Bossi and his cronies ranting about immigration and the flood of foreigners taking over Italy. In May, Amnesty International said it was concerned about the growing “climate of discrimination” in the country, in particular towards increasing attacks on the Roma community. Last month Abdul Salam Guibre, an Italian citizen originally from Burkina Faso was beaten to death in Milan after allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits. The death of Guibre was preceded by an attack on an Angolan student in Genoa in August and another on a 15-year-old boy from Sri Lanka in Milan in July.
From the reports I see in the Italian papers the country is beginning to seem remarkably similar to Russia where immigrants are beaten and even killed on a far too regular basis simply due to the colour of their skin.
Give immigrants a kick on the arse
So it’s interesting to see Daniela Santanche, former journalist and speaker for Francesco Storace’s La Destra party, is today moaning in a Corriere article about accusations that she represents the side of politics that throws petrol on the flames of intolerance. This, after all, is the woman who said illegal immigrants should “chucked out and given a kick on the arse”.
Last night in a special edition of the programme Anno Zero entitled “Italians, bad people”, politicians and journalists discussed the growing tide of violence against immigrants that is currently gripping the country.
Santanche claims in the Corriere article that during a break in filming, “two blacks insulted me with unjustifiable violence”. I’d never be one to excuse violence of any kind towards any human being but if these two unnamed “blacks” did insult her (Corriere appears to have made no to attempt to stand up Santanche’s assertions) maybe she now knows how the tens of thousands of immigrants who are verbally abused by Italians on a daily basis feel.
It is a deeply unsettling experience to see swastikas and neo-nazi crosses daubed on walls in pretty much every city centre. The last time I was in Bologna with a white French guy I was dating at the time a group of skin-headed neo-fascists tried to hand him a leaflet calling for the expulsion of immigrants from the country. Worse while on holiday near lake Garda a few years ago I had a young kid on a school trip point his fingers at me while imitating the sound of bullets flying towards my head.
Enduring love for il Duce
Still I try to question rather than to judge. For my final year dissertation I took the time to explore something that had always puzzled me about the Italian experience – the long held celebration of Benito Mussolini – whose face popped up all too frequently on lighters, tea towels, calendars and even bottles of wine in respectable restaurants.
I travelled to Predappio, the birthplace of Il Duce and place of pilgrimage for neo-fascist sympathisers from all over Italy. Walking into his tomb, accompanied by a British author who had penned about the fascist leader and coming face to face with a caped black shirt standing the guard of honour was a heart-stopping experiences (although the look on his face was probably more horrified than the look on mine).
Undeniably racist
I say all this to explain that I’m not some bleeding-heart lefty who’s quick to label Italians as racist but the current situation is disturbing and it would be remiss of me to downplay a trend in behaviour that is undeniably racist.
Maybe it’s the increasingly tense financial situation that’s making Italians turn in a violent manner against outsiders. I remember when I was living in Milan back in 2005, the rise in Chinese manufacturing and the ensuing pressure it placed upon the traditional Italian artisan was a constant topic of fear mongering in the media. Pejorative jokes commoplace, the Chinese were regarded as untrustworthy, almost inhuman; all in all it was like being in California in the 19th century.
I do love Italy. I feel incredibly privileged to have been given an insight into a deeply fascinating and complex country. None of this would have happened if I hadn’t been welcomed into the lives and homes of some of the most beautiful and loving people I have ever met. So why do I now have second thoughts about travelling to Italy on my own?
The Hip + The Square 
Thank you for this nice post!
I think that Italy is undergoing a complex process caused by the fact that its politic was blocked for more than 50 years under the so-called Democrazia Cristiana, because of the Cold War.
Italy today is like a ‘defrost’ society. Italians are starting partially from where the defeat of the Second World War and the political stagnation had left them. The fascination with fascism existed even before, only people feared to expressed it.
Today many Italians feel that, changed the political spectrum, to express appreciation for Fascism and Fascist ideas is honorable and any more controversial. A great number of Italians appreciated Fascism and racists ideas even before. Only they fear to public express it.
Today the hegemony of the ‘intellectual left’ is dead and the real face of a country mainly marked by fear and egoism is showing .
Italians are really at a difficult social political and cultural point. Only them can decide if going back to the dark age of ‘Faccetta Nera’ or start to engage with modernity and globalization, though tolerance and intelligent management of diversity.
I have written an analysis about this here
Gabriele
Gabriele youmake one important mistake. Italy is not a country, its a bunch of provinces lumped together under a flag that hate each other. there is little patriotism of doing things for the community or common good.
This is what most tourists believe they find in italy a community of happy people if only they stayed longer they would find out they smile at you so they can confuse you and charm you long enough to rob you. without understanding the lanuage you have no chance of seeing the reality as a tourist.
watch how Italians treat each other that is a true picture.
Sorry, but I think you are confused. If you have lived in Italy and believe you know the country and its people, seems that you don’t understand the situation. How can you take sides? Those people have no jobs, nothing at all, and how they survive? Stealing or doing who knows what other business. Seems that you haven’t hit by the financial situation. There are no jobs for Italians… and I don’t blame them for not wanting more unemployed people in their country. Please, get real and stop the ‘discrimination’ drama. Is it that hard to understand the situation in Italy, where hundreds of illegal people arrive every single day? People that don’t agree with what the Italy government is doing, should ‘adopt’ some of those illegal individuals… feed them… make them feel comfortable… instead of accusing the Italians of being ‘racist’.
Thanks for your comment.
Even without paying great attention to my article I think you’ll notice in the title of my post that I pose a question regarding racism in Italy rather than make the statement.
Indeed I take pains to state that: “I try to question rather than to judge”. So your assessment that I’m taking sides isn’t quite accurate and I am most definitely not “accusing Italians of being ‘racist’.
You also say that I “haven’t hit by the financial situation”. By this do you mean that I haven’t taken into consideration the impact that Italy’s faltering economy is having on society at large?
I did mention in my original post that maybe the “increasingly tense financial situation that’s making Italians turn in a violent manner against outsiders”.
But in the final analysis, there is no excuse for violence towards immigrants. To me, innocent people being killed and beaten simply because of their race is more than a “discrimination drama”.
Some of the most disgusting criminals in America are Greeks Arson, Drugs you name it. I find it laughable that a GREEK is making these remarks about Italians. Oxymoron at the very least.
Well, I am not sure what the stats on Greeks being criminals are (I think they’re very un-supportive of your claim) but when it comes to Italians it is indeed the case that very few can compete – just dropping a single word on the table ends this conversation: MAFIA.
A little FYI the MAFIA in the world today does not just include Italians. Russians, Chinese, almost all Central and Eastern Europeans, Latins America, all have organized crime. Yes la cosa nostra is a big one for sure but many are surpassing them in strength and power. In American for example the first group of organized crime groups where the Irish and the Jews not italians they arrived 25 years after the Irish. I think movis and shows produced by Italian Americans ironically have further heighten this perception and of course you have envious haters like the Greeks who never got over WWII and feel cultually inferior to the Italians looking to try to bring Italians down. Good Luck
Oh and by the way Fotios you right very few can compete with Italians at many things you insignificant greaseball greek
Hi Susan/Katherine,
I get that you don’t agree with Fotios, and I get that I’m inconsistent with moderating comments on this site but I’ve just seen your last comment and would really appreciate it if you could find a less offensive way of insulting people. Thanks in advance!
haha – we’re talking major personality disorder here if you add bobwall and a couple others on the list…
I am not sorry for what I just said about Fotios he is disgusting and dirty and represents all that is wrong with his kind. Goodbye
So long and many thanks for confirming the case that a lot of Italians are racist.
Like wise Thank You Fotios for confirming the same abouts the Greeks beginning anti-Italian bigots and the worst racist in Europe. http://www.socialissues.com/racism
http://www.globalissues.com/ racism will confirm this as well.
Idiot can’t even post working links. When God was raining brains you were holding an umbrella, weren’t you Katherine? Sure there’s a lot of racists in Greece and Italy – but why would that make anyone feel better about the shame of racism in Italy which is what the subject of this page is? What, you want company in misery and hate?
LOL!!!! Fotios I have to finally let you in on something there are a group of us posting some of these remarks and love pushing your button. We love responding to your stupidity Keep it coming it’s entertaining. Your good for a laugh when we get together between work projects.
Oh but this is exactly the case with me Katherine – I am having a lot of fun ridiculing your persona of the day.
Just as we predicted you responded back. But seriously, we all stand around the computer just waiting for your psychotic Anti-Italian rants it’s priceless. Please entertain us some more.
You STAND around the computer? Gee, you guys are truly idiots, aren’t you, Mate, I am sitting here on my ultra-chair, programming away and responding to this quite casually. I can do this forever. This is fun! Guys, hope you don’t get arthritis or anything standing around like idiots. Ahahahaha. Never saw one so stupid. I don’t even need to try – you defeat yourself all on your own. Ahahahaa Get some chairs you idiots!
HAHA actually we think you need to get a life Fotios and a brain. So Predictable We love it
Actually since I am not anonymous it is very easy for anyone to determine that I got both a life and brain. You on the other hand – who are you? You could be a pimple faced mammone with a fetish for anchovies – anything goes and probably does. By the way, you guys still standing? 🙂
oh, a few more points on immigrants and Italy:
1. Italians have immigrated to other countries more than many other nationalities.
2. Yet they don’t like it when others immigrate to their country. They don’t like it more than most other nationalities.
3. Many Italian immigrants have been notoriously criminal immigrants. The best known international criminal organisation is Italian (Mafia) and has been at work everywhere Italians have immigrated (drugs, prostitution, extortion, fraud, murder, …) Some of the most notorious criminals in history have been Italian. Romanians simply can’t compare to that.
4. The current Italian policy of threatening and intimidating immigrants means two things: a) they will still get immigrants as desperate people always find a way, b) they will keep only the worst of immigrants, simply because any immigrant with a brain and a choice would never stay in Italy.
Buona fortuna!
Fotios!
You are quite right! Not even smart Italians want to live in Italy! They all try to migrate to the UK, France, Australia, Germany, Switzerland where at least there is work and prospects.
Wow all Italians who immigrated to other countries were criminals? What a bigot you are. A little FYI to all thoses minorities who think Italy is the only one with issues of racism. Angela Merckel of Germany, for example, annouced in 2010 that “multiculturalism is not working” geeze I wonder what she ment by that when she made this statement. Humm? What is that to hard for people to swallow. I wonder how whites are treated in you countries? LOL
Fotios is a bigot and a clown and seeks to divide people not to mention he is Greek that alone should explain his extreme insecurity and inferiority towards Italians
I agree with you Fotios. Italians have immigrated to every single country on the planet, yet when anyone immigrates to Italy, then they things change. Also, as you said, most of the italians who immigrated to other countries were criminals. You’re right. I don’t intend to attack them. I met many italians visiting New York and they complained to me that the italian-amercians weren’t real italians because they were rude and racist. I just don’t get it. Anyways, my experience with italian people was positive, though I agree the italian-amercians really are racists, that’s just visible. My concern here is not about criticizing for criticism’s sake, but showing how fair unfair it is to be a xenophobic when they themselves go to other peoples countries. Not fair!
Oh my dear Lord! When you talk about those people who the hell are you talking about? I have been living in Italy for 13 years and employ a staff of 26 of which half are non-Italian. I can assure you that they do no ‘steal or do who knows what other business’, however, they work hard, in general much harder and more trustworthy than the average Italian. Racism and ignorance is so entwined in your society and in your minds that after 13 years I am convinced that there is no real future for your country! Most of the international love of Italy has been created by those Italians fortunate enough to live outside of Italy and it is a big shock for many of us (English, US, Belgium, French, white and non-white) when we come to live in Italy and discover that Italy is in fact an old, farty, boring (nothing new starts out in Italy) add to that a predominantly racist attitude means that the ‘fortunate’ foreigners like myself … leave/will be leaving.
Leona, the Italian government can deport immigrants if they feel that’s necessary, it can also deny work permits. You, Italians, are entitled to regulate the amount and the kind of people that enters your country. However, you are not entitled to insult other people, or to hurt them physically or psychologically. Protecting your labor market it’s not an excuse to act in an uncivilized manner.
Well said, Sergio. It’s never acceptable for one group of people to take their frustrations out on another group of people. I’m an American Black female, originally from the East Coast. After getting my Bachelor’s degree, I relocated to Midwestern United States to earn a Master’s degree. After finishing my education, I found that I was ‘overqualified.’ I had to find a job at a local airport. I had to lift heavy boxes 12 hours a day, five days a week for 10 months straight to save money to relocate to the Washington, DC area. I forgot how racist this area was, as I never liked visiting this area when I was growing up. Although it has greatly improved in 2012, many of the natives, particularly in the Baltimore MD area hold on to their racist views, but in subtle ways. Granted, the economy is poor. Majority of the whites in this area are blue-collar workers, never going to college. It’s not that horrible to find jobs here if you have a college degree, or some type of administrative skill, as this is the nation’s capital, with many government opportunities. Even still, I keep a tight budget, as I don’t want to fall prey to debt. My heart goes out to the blue-collar workers here. I honestly do. What I don’t like is the fact that they blame blacks for taking their jobs and make terrible remarks about blacks taking advantage of the system. not true. The reality of the matter is that they are not finding jobs because of their lack of skill, mixed with poor economy. When I was growing up, poor and public housing, we didn’t have the things we wanted and suffered financially. Still, we didn’t sit up and cry and holler out racist terms towards whites. We pushed ourselves and learned to adapt to not having much. I don’t think some people, regardless of race know how to do without. That’s what’s making this economy more unbearable. I just hope that all people….black and white…learn that the key to surviving this economy is unity. We can’t point the finger at anyone. I learned a lot about money management and resume building from some of my white friends. I was able to teach them how to hunt down bargains and look for grant money to return to school. We all need each other.
There was a time that Italy was a great place to live as a foreigner. ‘Foreigner’. I may stop for a moment and remind you all, that all Italians who travel out of this little country that can be driven from top to bottom in less than a day, are also themselves frequently ‘foreigners’. The word typically used for Foreigner is ‘extracomunitari’, which literally means someone coming from outside ‘extra’ the European Union ‘community’. This in and of itself is not such a bad thing, but when that words starts to come off the lips of Italians the way the word ‘nigger’ rolled of the lips of racist whites not too long ago in the USA, the impact is the same and the damage just as painful.
What can we expect, however, of a population whose own Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, referred to President Obama on national TV, as a nice tall boy. Though the cause in this specific case was more ignorance than racism, many Italians in Italy somehow accept it as their birthright to be verbally abusive with anyone not from Italy especially black people.
It is useless to explain that it is probably one of the most offensive things to say to a Black man in America since they would not believe you anyway. As a black person in Italy, you have very little face value and you find yourself having to verify your personal worth through the endorsement of someone of the master race.
Policemen stop you and openly admit that they have orders to check ‘extracomunitari’, foreigners. Does a foreigner wear a sign on their heads saying ‘foreigner’ or does law enforcement deduce this by the color of their skins?
Blatant racism is relatively new in Italy, so it is not subtle. In America, if you are the victim of racism, it is smooth, cloaked, you almost have to do a double take and ask yourself, ‘did she really say that’?
In Italy, it’s in your face. It is the attendant at the airport who singles you out of hundreds of whites to have your passport checked and rechecked. It’s the police office that does not let you go even after all your documents check out. It’s the judge who rules against you when there is no evidence supporting his decision. It is around you everywhere when you do not ever see a black face occupying any role in the society above, street vendor, prostitute, and window washer. Other than this, Italy is not racist!
Dear girovago80, you shouldn’t even address the issue. Why not talk about something else? I understand you are not living in Italy anymore so why bother? Not because there have been a few of attacks by ignorant people like the ones that accuse Italy as being racist, we have to condemn the entire country. I agree with them 100%. No more immigrants… close the doors, send them back from where they came from. Too bad they don’t like their own countries. Italy has her own problems too. And forget about fascism. Every time there is something that doesn’t please the left, the word ‘fascism’ comes handy. No more illegal aliens. Period.
And sorry if my comments upset you. This business of discrimination is getting ridiculous. Soon, the illegal immigrants will take over our countries and we will have to kindly smile to them in order of not being accused as ‘racists’. Pitiful!
Leona, your comment makes no sense. There are millions of Italians living in my country (Argentina). Most of them are too old to work. According to your logic, we should them all to Italy, which will raise your unemployment rate to the ceiling. Argentina may have many problems, social and economical ones, but most of us, Argentine citizens, are proud of those immigrants who left their countries and came here to work hard and with honesty. Many of them were Italians. Maybe, if you ever come to live abroad, you’ll understand the the value of a man it’s not in his skin, but in his heart.
you want to close the door to immigrants but you want to keep selling your products all over the world and you want to keep being welcomed as tourists everywhere you go. If non-Italians were to stop buying Italian you would go back to milking cows for your own milk – some Italians are already there. There’s a lot of Italian immigrants in the US. Many of them are involved (even traditionally) in shady business. Less than 100 years ago the Italian-American stereotype was of the criminal mafioso. What if the US attitude towards them had been the same Italy’s currently is towards the Romanians?
I actually lived in Italy for about 13 years. I worked and schooled and it was really hard for me as a dark skinned person. Life in italy was hell. One of my first experience was when I was sent for a job interview in an italian office with my curriculum. When i first entered into the office and was waiting for the boss, some silly Italian lady was like almost lost her senses whyen she saw me. Then she came up to me and said “chi l’ha detto di entrare qua?” meaning who told you to come in here, who told you to come in here? Then she hurried to the other office rooms in the hallway complaining to the people inside “Chi l’ha detto a quel ragazzo di colore di entrate qua” meaning who told that coloured guy to come into this place then more italians kept taking a peek from their offices until the boss came along. While he was coming he was like telling the italian woman to relax or something like that. Then when he came towards me he was like too disgusted with a clearly false smile on his face. I worked there for like 3 months on contract and the boss did everything to send me away.So many things happened while i was in Italy. Sometimes when i am walking on the streets and when an italian sees me he/she will cross the road to the other side and i’ll laugh because almost all italians who saw me did the same thing. Almost all of them were alike. Doing exactly the same thing.An average black person can encounter racism like up to 4 or 5 times a day on average in Italy. Most times italians will ask me if i liked italy thinking that Italy is the best country on earth for them. They will even go as far as asking me if automobiles and aircrafts or buildings existed in my country. I was like woow are these Itaians really Europeans. But i am glad i left italy because it was the most horrible place i ever stayed in compared to all the other European countries i ever visited. Today I dont trust italians. I dont even wanna have anything to do with them.I know italians make a lot of good stuff but a country is over-racist then there is no how you can see any good from what it produces……
As an italian i really feel ashamed just hope you have found a better country now. I’m not going to justify any of those bad episodes but please believe me i would never treat you wrong just cos of your skin colour. That’s just absurd, i’m sorry you didn’t get to know people like me ( aka normal people who are not crazy racists).
Best wishes
Hi,
I am from Milan, and I am deeply sorry to read this post and its replies. The most painful thing is that all true – as some responses from my fellow countrymen have so eloquently demonstrated.
One could say that Italy is going through a terrifyingly retrograde phase, but please understand that not all Italians are racist and xenophobic. There are some of us that are fighting life-long battles against a system that inhibits any kind of drift from mainstream, be it ethnic, religious, of sexual orientation or simply of lifestyle, and which is becoming more frighteningly conservative by the day. Neo-fascism gains ground while the left is losing its strength.
Please imagine what it’s like to be a young and thankfully educated Italian today and to see this madness happen, how deeply frustrating because of the incredible potential of this rich and beautiful country you see going to waste.
There is no tangible political entity to rely on in order to counter all this. The left is too busy with infighting to be a relevant force, and too drastically tied to an anachronistic past. The nation is ruled by old, angry, scared and often racist people, that rip on anything they don’t understand – including the nation’s youth.
But perhaps I may suggest my courage-giving vision: these old farts will soon die and the immigrants will keep coming, and they will have more kids than the somehow less fertile locals. A new generation of Italians will see the light, one where the ethnic and cultural make up of the country will be diverse and a discourse of real integration will be business as usual. This is how I hope that this nation will revive its spirit, and become once again a country worth loving.
But in the meanwhile, as you look at this difficult nation and maybe cringe, keep in mind that there also are those who spend their lives trying to make a difference, a minority though we may be.
Gadi, thanks so much for your comments. It’s really refreshing to hear the point of view of an Italian frustated by the current state of affairs. You’re completely right – it would be foolish to think that all Italians are racist. It is indeed a “rich and beautiful country” and as long as people who think the way you do are around, its future looks bright!
Ditto. Italy is wasting its great potential and harming itself by its inability to let go of certain toxic attitudes and ideas that for various historical, political and cultural reasons have been allowed to claim mainstream. It is really painful, even for me a non Italian, when I see people who supposedly represent the intellectual elite of Italy, use arguments, ideas and references that belong to the 40s, 50s and 60s. Italy has somehow fallen out of the progress train about 50 years ago and it needs to get back on. Cheers!
as someone already pointed out, only the desperate or criminal immigrants will stay in Italy, some use it as a corridor to Europe, the rest the educated and good ones eventually leave and go where they can be respected. You miss the point. you italains should get off your mothers breasts sometimes and walk in the streets with open eyes, and see what is happening to your country.
its a shame!
I live in Italy and I can tell you for sure Italy is the worst place for living if you are black.
Italians are very racist with black people and dark skinned people like people from India and Bangladesh.
In Italy if you are a white immigrants like people from East European countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Albania etc. then you don’ t have problems, italians give you a job and treat you good, but if you are a black immigrants or a black English, a black French, a black American, a black Italian then italians treat you worst than an animal, no job, no respect nothing at all.
Italians say black immigrants bring crime in Italy but the most part of the crimes are committed by immigrants from East European countries like those ones that I mentioned before and they are not black they are white and also the very big part of immigrants in Italy are white immigrants not black immigrants.
My advice for black people is to avoid Italy even as a tourist, don’ t give your money to those racist people.
all foreigner are treated badly , the blacks have the worst treament but Italains hate anything non italian!! the word extra communitari makes me laugh stuuuuuuupid!
I am a black American citizen who has an Italian girlfriend. She was trying to convince me that a trip to Italy would be nice and that Italians were not racist. I have been reading accounts of Italy’s seemingly endemic racism and have concluded that I will be avoiding that nation at all costs. Thanks for the heads up.
Hi John,
Thanks for reading and commenting. Obviously you and your girlfriend will come to your own conclusion on this one but it would be a real shame if you didn’t visit the country because the ignorance of a minority of people.
Italy is a beautiful country and, as you can hopefully see from the comments here, there are many open-minded forward thinking people there.
If you are travelling to the country with an Italian girl I think it’s good to be fore-warned that you might get some funny looks and she might overhear some remarks, but I imagine that’s no different from the experience you might have in many parts of America too? Where are you planning to travel to? I’d love to hear more…
Well, I have to disagree. I’m a dark skinned African American woman visiting Rome on my fifth day. Tomorrow is my last day in this country and I can’t WAIT to get the hell out of here. Yes there is blatant racism towards Blacks even African Americans. I have refused to dine out or shop the entire time Im here because I refuse to financially support a country that has treated me with so much contempt. Wherever I go they throw my change at me after I purchase something. They sneer at me in passing. On the metro I was heckled by some old woman on the train calling me chocolatey lady over and over again while people on the train were laughing!!! Im from the Anerican South so I have a pretty thick skin and just smiled at her and kept looking away. Can’t let them see how upset you are because that is what they want. Im visiting Italy after three weeks studying in Madrid. I thought Madrid would be racist but they were some of the friendliest people I’ve ever met in Europe. In Madrid I felt stares out of curiosity but in Rome I felt contempt. In Madrid the store owners smiled at me said thank you and come back struck up conversations about life, politics. In Madrid they are very good people. I think the difference between Spain and Italy is that Spanish people are positive minded, optimistic people and Italians are grossly negative and corruption is simple a part if their value system. I think it has harden their hearts from compassion to others. I almost feel sorry for them but Spain is in a worse economy than Italy yet they are still smiling even with all the protest in Madrid the people still SMILE everyday. I really admire that. You can fight to change your circumstances rather than letting your circumstances making you bitter and cold hearted and that is what has happened to Italians. In closing, I was disappointed with Rome in general. It’s dirty reeks of excrements often dog poo in the street graffiti everywhere. The transportation system looks exactly like New York back in the Sixties. Everything is dilapidated. The ruins themselves are magnificent but the city has obviously experienced decades of mismanagement and corruption. There’s not a lot of eateries mostly pizzaries and gelato shop. The pasta taste a little better than Olive Garden with half the portion size and triple the price. Everyone has a scam going in this city. I’m so ready to go. This is my last visit to Rome. I may try Milan because I’ve heard it’s more cosmopolitan but this country has really left a sour taste I my mouth. Please don’t waste your travel money on this country. They’re just not worth it.
Italy is a great place to visit or for a holiday and if you don’t speak the language you will be more than fine. Its when you set up roots that you would automatically have a problem. Italians don’t care who you are if you are dark-skinned they automatically have to find issues with your existence. There are some really great Italian people in Italy, unfortunately, they are far from being the majority.
As a young Italian guy who is about to study at a London university, I like to think I can pass a well-balanced judgement. Firstly, I will make it clear that my political allegiances lay to the right of the spectrum. I look around at the borderline-Communist governments of Britain, Germany and France, and I see nations plagued by crime, lack of identity and crisis of morals. It is clear that people like mmr9 from Milan are pathological; deluded, even historical-social anomalies. I tell you this – never will you find a black African eager to replace all his countrymen with Europeans so that he can have more ‘diversity’, and more ‘tolerance’. This thinking has plagued the West for too long. I only speak this harshly as I am a young person who has always been extremely liberal and free-thinking. I, too, had a passion for immigrants and globalisation. However, I think it is clear to anyone with reasonable intelligence and a love for his/her country, that this sort of thinking is suicidal; as soon as I turned 17, I experienced an ‘awakening’ – I looked around in my city of Milan, and see that it is the Chinese who peddle the street-drugs, the blacks who committ 80% of crime (fact, not opinion) and simple, honest Italians who suffer lack of job opportunities and housing. Now that I am in London, people think much the same – some areas of the city are taken from Kinshasha, or perhaps Mumbai or Tangiers…98% of gun crime and gang rape in London is from non-European immigrants, can you believe!! I searched the internet, and found identical figures for Arabs and Somalians in Copenhagen and Oslo. For you wealthy, middle-class leftists who have tried to sell out my beautiful country and continent, people like me will take revenge. Thank God, all my friends have woken up, as well as most of Italy…my generation must accept the cross to bear of your absurd socialist experiments upon bella europa…it is not too late to avoid the fate of France or Germany yet…
Hi Cicco,
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
You say that you are in a position to a make a ‘well balanced judgement’ but then go on to define people like mmr9 as ‘pathological; deluded, even historical-social anomalies’.
How can you justify such a statement?
Also what do you mean when you say ‘people like me will take revenge’?
Look forward to hearing your thoughts
Firstly, I would like to make an apology for my earlier comment; I feel a little embarassed upon re-reading it! I was a little angry at the time, so you know how these things are…Still, I have sentiments that I would like to express. I am a great believer in compromise and concession. My thoughts on society and immigration are very much aligned with my foreign friends at university (I study politics/International economics); for information,we are talking about guys from Mid-East, China, Korea etc….Anyway, the general belief that I adhere to (as most of the world), is that it is important to preserve a nation’s identity, its history, its culture. And yes, this includes the ethnicity. Does this mean ‘No Immigrants!’ or ‘No non-Europeans!’. No, of course not, but it means that Governments must be more responsible and act according more to the wish of the citizens; immigrants should be selected on the basis of special skills or values, and all of us students from around the world believe that immigrant population should not really exceed 5%…You see in countries like France, Malaysia, Britain, that this is the point at which big tensions begin to grow. It must be said that it is only highly liberalized, ‘moral/cultural relativists’ and often bourgeois whites who insist on total breakdown of world borders and social taboos. I look forward to hearing your reply, and I hope that we may have a fascinating debate.
Also, to the American; I would not preach about an ‘increasingly insignificant’ Italy…the Third World supports China now, not USA, and your country is very much a power in decline.
Please kick this insane fascist out of this forum.Why aren’t you studying in your country
Your ignorance of modern history is astounding. Plagued by this kind of thinking for too long? The big majority of Italians have never thought in any other way. Just 60 years ago you started a massacre of European and African populations based on exactly this crap you are not ashamed to repeat on this forum. You were defeated again and again and let me tell you: if Italy starts another wave of hate, racism and fasism in Europe the allies (that is us) will not be so kind and garcious on your increasigly insignificant country this time. Get a life and go see a doctor.
surprise surprise Cicco yourvpoliitical leanings are to the right, just like 90 of Italians, Im also a capalist, but my right is very different from your right…
.So you left your and went to London where you can automatically work with no problems, there are 100,000 young italians doing what you are doing. But if a british professional qualified person like me comes to Italy to work we have to go through years of abuse and forms to settle here. no automatic entry.
what has become clear to me after talking to Italians over 10 years is. they know nothing about what happens in their country, NOTHING? we call them the mushroom society politically, “kept in the dark and fed on manure” italy is the only country in Europe to not follow EU regulations. in fact most Italians over 50 dont even know what the EU is,and most certainly dont want to find out.
thats it.
ooooh I forgot… your legal system is a joke around the world…. most EU countries have about 20 appeals after a courtcase is closed. italy has over 300 a year, and the average simple case takes 4 to 8 years to conclude if ever.
then lets not forget that 40,000 new legal students are pushed out of Italys silly universities every year having only gone to class on exam day, where will they be looking for work?? thats right, London. London actually has a real legal system which they cant practice in . there is a God after all!
Oh yes, to add, when I said something like ‘I will take revenge’, I just mean that I have a good family base from which to enter national level politics; hopefully one day I will be in a position in which to do what is best in the long-term for Italians in Italy. This is all I implied, not a crazy idea with a bomb or something!
even the great Amazon would be unable to wash that justfied guilt away…
Another incredibly insightful and relevant comment from an Anglophone guy who spells less coherently than an Italian…Maybe you thought it would be powerful and effective if you left a vague, sweeping remark that does not address any raised issues or promote intellectual debate over the stale rhetoric of the left-wing. I have no doubt in my mind as to the fact that you are a middle-income, urban-based American who is between the ages of 25-38. If you are older than this, shame on you for clinging to such immature beliefs. As the great Winston Churchill said, ‘Any man under the age of 20 who is not a liberal does not have a heart. Any man over the age of 30 who is not a Conservative does not have a brain’…
It is not surprising to me that you are completely wrong in your claims about who I am as well as pretty much everything else you say; you are an Italian fascist after all – to you dialog and debate is just a way to single out those who disagree. In fact I am a Greek who lived all over the world, including Italy – I know your kind very well. My grandfather was one of those Greeks who hunted down Italian fascist invaders all the way into Albania; he killed many of those human abominations. He used to tell me that Italian mountaineer soldiers were such idiots that they were wearing hats with red feathers (probably Mussolini’s idea, to be fair) on snow white mountains. It was very easy to aim for their heads, which he did many times. Losers! Let me tell you: for you there is nothing but more of the same if you stay on this path. So, get your shit together!
OK, let’s tear down your petty and vindictive response. Firstly, you make the stale, synthetic and tired claim that I am a ‘Fascist’ – I would be more than happy to agree with you, aside from the small indiscretion that it is patently untrue. You throw this word round as if it is so much candy, without, I think, considering what political-socio fascism actually entails. The fact that you accuse me (ironically enough, during a free discourse and debate) of stifling your opinion, means that you are a hypocrite. You accept only your beliefs as validated and choose to defend yourself with stigma-inducing terms such as Fascist. Only God and common sense can judge your opinions, not I. If they are strong, reasoned and structured, you should not have to ‘insure’ their validity by accusing others of disregarding them.
You revealed to me your true nature when you went off on a bizarre and unrelated tangent about murdering people in the hills. You would have the world believe you are a selfless liberal; no doubt this entails gloating to a 17 year old on the internet about how your family used to kill people.
Furthermore, I was under the impression that we were discussing politics, not the aesthetics of millinery choice pertaining to a 20th century military faction. Yes, don’t worry, you can google the word ‘millinery’. You tell me that there is more ‘shit’ for me if I continue down ‘this path’…well, as a young, academically successful, tri-lingual, wealthy, happy, attractive, in-love young guy, I tell you – bring on more of this ‘shit’. Please, I await your most esteemed reply, my American friend. Also, I don’t like to be too unreasonable, but again, you made too many spelling errors for me to take you seriously.
This is amazing. You know, I’ve been doing this for a very long time and I still get shocked by how such discussions with Italian fascistoid simpletons end up the exact same way: they start listing their titles, academic and other accomplishments as well as various attributes and skills (most often foreign language skills that ironically are the skills most obviously lacking in Italy), often along with the fact that they are really teens (I’ve had one claiming he’s a 12 year old kid and a couple of others claiming they’re half-black teens). It is as if they think “ad hominem” is a good way to back up arguments (another sign they’re irrevocably stuck in the 50s?)
I’ve rarely read as contrived and pretentious English as cicco’s. My friend, you’re not tri-lingual! You are a linguistic disaster… and, did you say “attractive”? Gee, send us a photo!
He can’t help it – all Italians think they are gorgeous; even the uglies!
Fotios, thank God you are resilient, I learned long ago that wasting my breath on uneducated Italo mezza sege is really not worth it. anyway i hope this forum is still going, lets chat
Cicco,
You seem to be greatly blinded by your sense of grandeur.
If you claim at 17 to be academically sucessful, wealthy etc. I would say, that probably any wealth that you have access to is a directly linked to ‘mamma or babbo’, no doubt you will be living at home until you are in your mid-thirties, like most Italians, no-doubt you will marry your high-school sweetheart and then screw around with East European and African prostitutes, like most Italians. As for your academic success, what does that actually mean, do you have a degree or any certificate allowing you to hold down any profession. Have you actually ever been employed by anybody? I would also add that with a racist attitude like you have, that working for an international company (especially outside of Italy) will be very doubtful, and you do know that, unless ‘babbo’ paves your way and buys you into some job or another you will probably have to leave Italy and find employment in ie. UK, Germany, France, USA etc where at least, there are job prospects. Good luck in life Dumbo!!
You got the point.most of them live with their parents till the age of 28-29.And even when they are working they still ask help from parents to buy a house,a car,furnitures..etc…their universities are not better than many in in the thirld world that’s why that poor guy had to go to London to try to get real Higher Education and Culture…but after I’ve read his posts I assert it will be tough job for him
Cicco, with your ideas and your mentality London and England are not a place for you, trust me.
Stay in your Italy.
It’ s not true that in Italy most of the crimes are committed by black immigrants, most of the immigrants crimes are committed by white immigrants from East European countries like Ukraine, Moldavia, Albania etc. that are the very big part of the immigrants who are in Italy, black immigrants are a very small part of the immigrants in Italy.
You talked about the English Conservatives ? Well do you know that in the English Conservative party (Tories) there are also black politicians.
You called Communist the governments of France, England and Germany? Well actually France government is a right wing government ruled by Nicolas Sarkozy, England government is a Labourist (not Communist) government ruled by Gordon Brown and Germany government is a centre government ruled by Angela Merkel, none of this governments is a communist government but it’ s funny because Italians call Communist everyone it’ s not a fascist even if it’ s democratic or right wing moderated.
Fotios, Italians are hopeless, even the youg generations, they are people who are still stuck in the fascist period and they will never change, the only solution is avoid them.
BLACK TOURISTS AND NOT RACIST TOURISTS, DON’ T GO TO ITALY !
I must say that i´ve been living in Italy for some time ( current in vacation at Brazil ) and i never saw such extent of racism in Italy. I am from Norway and i´ve never faced any racism at anyway whatsoever, perhaps it´s because i am white just like italians but my point is, if such claims are to be true, Italians are still white supremacist just like in WW2. Nevertheless, i do believe that there must be a lot of good italians that arent racists.
Olaf, of course you never faced racism in Italy, you’ re white and you’ re from Norway !
Italians are racist only against black people.
olaf you need to get out more. i have lived all over the world. Italy is racist and zenophobic lets use the right term. Italians use racist to mean anyone who is closed-minded. but the right term for racist is against other races, but they are also deeply zenophobic the majority of them
Cicco,
Part of your earlier ‘rantings’ was that a country needs to preserve its ‘ethnicity’. Uhmm, its a pity then that there are so many Italians in the USA, UK, Argentina, Brazil, Australia, Africa, S. America buggering up that theory. Why don’t they all move back to Italy!!!
You need to acquire a few years (at least 30) life experience before you start trying to discuss international issues on the internet, you know jack-shit. Also the friends that you study with probably can’t stand you and no doubt internally cringe when you start speaking about stuff you know nothing about. No doubt you are one of those people who goes around making racists remarks and then adds on ‘my best friend is Arabic’ etc.
Baci.
Joy, I couldnt agree more, but please dont suggest that all the Italians be kicked out and sent back home… well at least not till I leave anyway 🙂 after that go ahead!
i came across this blog by pure chance when searching on Italy, as someone from the UK who is of pakistani heritage, reading all the comments has given me some insight on Italy which i never really considered before. I am considering moving to Italy and working out there, once I visit Italy this summer. I’ve always had a fascination with Italy, the italian people I have met and become friends with thank fully don’t share some of these outdated views, they are open minded and look beyond colour. Every country has it’s fair share of racism and issues with immigration and influx of immigrants, however, surely this cannot mean that the whole country is racist?! I’m a little surprised at the level of racism that some of the you people have suffered in the cities, I know it happens, but I suspected it would be more likely in smaller towns etc. I assumed places like Milan would be abit more cosmopolitan and more diverse in cultures? I guess I will only find this out for myself when I visit there. I won’t be allowing some small minded people stopping from visit a country with such beauty! Racism is something which is everywhere, it’s only through educating people that you can change people’s views.
Way cool my friend – only problem is you are not really Pakistani; just another Italian who chooses to lie in order to cover up the ugly truth about his country. And, yes, all countries have their share of racism; it is just that Italy has one that is maybe bigger than 50%. Now compare that to a something like 10% or 20% and you will also know that just because two problems are of the same type they are not necessarily of the same size. Capici?
Fotios your are delusional to think Italy has the highest amount of racism. Many other countries particularly northern European ones are better at hidding it and for good reason. Look at England France and Germany colonialism, slavery both in Europe and America and the murder and destruction of minority cultures at home and abroad plague the history of these nations and their people. They are now trying to act in a manner which contradicts the actions of these nations. Instead you give blame and hatred upon a people and nation that does not have their track record for hate. I guess you could say countries like French Germany and england have a case of white guilt.
Well, the only reason Italians did not get to have any colonies is because they were defeated. I mean, if they could they would colonize Europe itself let alone Africa or the Americas. They certainly tried, but I guess you know how that story ended all too well.
Regardless, I’d like to remind you that this a discussion about racism in Italy today and not in the past. So, TODAY, Italy and probably smaller shitty backwaters like Greece, are the most racist places in the world and there is simply no comparison to other countries for anyone who’s been around a bit more than the average 30 year old Italian still living with his mama.
http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2010/05/10/visualizza_new.html_1791113909.html
Well, Cicco I love your humour.
I’m not Italian – I look Italian but actually I’m mixed raced and very happy with that.
There’s a great deal of racism in italy on every level in my (considerable) experience. Where you are not snubbed you get the ‘oooooh what a lovely culture’ and then they present you with beef or pork and if you won’t or can’t eat it – then see the reaction. Two sides of the same coin in my opinion.
If you are a non-european female the guys will follow you to the ends of the earth for your looks but totally disregard your culture and your education.
This happens in all parts of Italy so the north and south are more united than one might think.
Cicco – you present the side of Italian life that us inferior foreigners loathe. You feel superior – you attempt to intellectualise your racism (and do a bad job). You more or less admit that ANYTHING you achieve in your life will be through the old boy’s network and this is the problem with Italy. Lots of talent (like any other country) all stifled by snobbery (which is funny given you get to university on the basis of your own teachers marking your papers) and family connections. You will do well at the expense of ordinary Italian citizens as you have connections.
You don’t know the UK – you’ll just hook up with minority views (saddos are global) to give weight to your own crass views.
I’m from the UK. I’m from a multicultural, multifaith and multiracial family who speak more languages than your family (throughout your family history). And how did we achieve that – by living abroad (through choice) being adventurous and being curious, interested and interesting.
I’m happy with who I am and it doesn’t make me any less British as my 42 years in this country have proved. I thank the country I live in for facilitating that.
Contrast this to Italy (I’m married to a national) – no recognition of anything non Italian. I have travelled the world but in Italy I feel merely a woman (an Italian definition of one) and a foreign one at that.
You know what – I’ve been going there a couple of times per year for 20 long years and EACH time I’ve been so insulted. So, from my point of view, Italian racism is nothing knew.
Look at the difference – my very successful and educated family are proud to have a granchild that is half Italian. My inlaws, who can only just about communicate in their own language, sigh and call me the ‘English mother’. And worse.
Sad really. and I’ve noted that even educated people approach me with sweeping assumptions – ‘the protestant’ for example. What educated person would assume that the English are all Protestants!!!!! Stupid provincial ones.
The biggest laugh was when a distant and very educated and well connected relative of my husband told me that she was going to live in Roma thanks to a post given to her by the political classes – but in her haste to find a flat she was going to have to live with Indians – she said this to ME with a straight face.
Oh god – in the UK – in the (very unlikely) event of this being said I’d have ripped their head off – but in Italy – what on earth to do say to such appalling ignorance. Putting it down to provincialism is the kindest thing I can do.
Yep, come to London – I’ve met alot like you – get a bit of freedom and 9 months on you are in A&E for a huge drug overdose and you will be treated with respect and dignity by a national of the one of the many non european nationals you so despise.
I am proud that my son has Italian heritage but given the views I’ve seen (and thanks, you’ve just confirmed them), I certainly won’t be promoting the the provincialism.
im a British guy, teaching English in Milan and Brescia…. Im white.
Italy is a country that is 50years behild everyone else. There is a huge desperation for Italians to learn English, schools, private lessons etc.. so why do Italians not mix with any British, Australian people here? and i hate the fact they all go around with their English grammar books but never respond to simple.. goodmornings etc etc and ive never spoken to a neighbour in the building where ive lived for 3 years.. hence its time to get back home. racist assholes, its not just the colour of the skin, its the fact they are a jelous nation. i hate them
right on Paul – right on
Italy…most of the kids dont want to study, they dont respect their parents, lack of good moral and right conduct. they always complain about their work. hypocrite. lazy. prejudist. ignorant. at the age of 13.. most of the girls starts to smoke, drink, become a slut.
they dont give opportunities to other people. have you seen a black cop in italy? asian bus drivers, taxi drivers or metro?
accept it! italians are racist!
I’m an Italian who has always read in both italian and english since the young age of five, and easily learned french when in his teens and started reading in this language as well. Now I’ve picked up German and Russian too and read them both with a varying degree of accuracy.
I have to admit I have always had a keen interest in learning and a lively curiosity in observing Nature and I remember this, that the Italians, with whom I’ve always had contact with since birth, are different in their view of talent: I remember being constantly shunned not by all Italians but by a great majority of them, as il saccentello or l’eremita or il pazzo because of my eager passion for learning. I prefered learning, reading and a deeper more introverted approach to life, to what I summed up as being the italian approach to things and people, in other words the fatalism of life and the shallowness and superficiality of thought and mien. Thus they were biased towards me in both tenure and meaning, including fellow students and adults in an adeguately controlled environment, as a school with student language diversity can be.
Thus, I can let you imagine what a run down, ignorant and racist and not at last evil city like Napoli can be compared to a fairly well kept place in both diversity and depth like the above mentioned school and childhood.
I have always been the naturally inclined observer and naturalist and thus I eagerly compared mores between my peers and other countrymen, and I noticed, and then got confirmed by experience, that italians are insecure and meek compared to some other linguistical groups, as opposed to others with which they are more akin, in the sense that they are more similar to them both with regards to their comportment and inner and thus social stability.
These italians who shunned me were by far and large the larger group of people with which I’ve had trouble with, i.e. bullying, social isolation, and nasty remarks, and the more they noticed my depth and knowledge of languages and science the more they increased the arrows spat at me from their quiver of mockery and venom, both in public buildings and at work and school, whereas the other linguistic groups with which I came into contact with, e.g. the Brits, the Americans even the Africans and Spaniards were more deep and caring in their recognition of dignity to talent and to knowledge compared to these risible italians; unfortunately even some of my relatives share these strange views against skin color and sexual gender and it’s fairly useless and pointless to argue with them.
I also observed lots of good talent and potential assets being wasted already at a young age when I remember intelligent people, both children and adult, being hindered in their personal and inner growth, by the closemindedness, by the sheer idiocy, and by the mental clumsyness of these ”italians”, which constitute the country’s moral majority.
Unfortunately I had already foreseen the country’s future and total crippling by the hands’ of these italians when I was a child and when I noticed that those morally, civically dedicated citizens were a minority.
Hi Reuben,
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences on my blog – I really appreciate you taking the time. I hope you’ve managed to find a sense of belonging despite the difficulties you had when you were growing up!
i’m a 20yr old african female and i was considering visiting italy in march but after reading what them ‘proud italians’ had to say i am seriously having doubts about it.
Funny article… I always knew italians were backward and stupid ignorant people… maybe thats why they are racist because they have no exposure to the world nor do they want to have any exposure. They seem to live in their own little world and rarely want to explore. I am a wealthy Indian – lucky enough to be in the top 0.2% of the wealth bracket in the world – personally so far I’ve never had a seriously bad experience with italians but I don’t like them anyway. I find them very dumb and boring – and except for italian fashion or ferrari’s – I have no interest in that country… I find most of them to be very “poor” in mentality… and most italians are actually quite poor… It’s like a 3rd world country really and should not even be considered part of Europe. The few wealthy Italians have their nose so high up in the air that it makes even the snobbiest brits seem more down to earth – however the big difference here is that wealthy british and wealthy indians as well as wealthy Americans – are all very cultured, worldly and intellectually “Aware” people – whereas wealthy Italians are not… they dont give a damn about the rest of the world and live in their own coccoon of ignorance… .they are boring and pretentious about the silliest of things and do not fit into the context of an international intellectual society. I don’t think Italy will remain part of the EU for too long – it is probably the most hated country in EU right now… and most tourists avoid it as well because of their arrogance and stupidity… the economy is in hell already and they will gradually disappear so i’m not really worried. For a european country they currently don’t even have a national Airline…LOL… we all know what happened to Alitalia…
Like I said I never had a serious problem with italians – but each time I met one they had their own opinion about the world and displayed so much ignorance and stupidity that I dont bother to get to know them better… and treat them the same way they treat me… whatever India may be and whatever America or Britain may be – at least all these countries embrace the future and move forward as modern progressive societies – Italy on the other hand is backward and getting worse… sadly its their road to self-destruction and they will never be able to sustain all this hatred and xenophobia towards everyone else…. it will destroy their country and make them the poorest people on earth….
One last thing.. the way italians treat foreigners in their country – same way they are treated quite badly in UK… most british just think if ur from Italy then you must be Mafia….and most foreigners living in UK avoid italians because they have heard and experienced so much bad about them…
On a serious note though – all this nonsense in italy cannot be blamed on the govt… but rather the religion that rules and destroyed that country… If only Italians were open-minded people they could have taken over the world with their once beautiful culture…
Hi Jetsetter,
Thanks for reading my article and for sharing your views. How did you stumble upon my blog? It’s pretty exciting to hear that I have a reader in India!
I’m sorry you’ve had negative experiences with Italy. I hope you can still keep an open mind as there are plenty of great Italians out there, so please don’t write them all off as “dumb and boring” 🙂
well, speaking of “Italians” in general I think that, pragmatically speaking, most people mean a strong and dominant majority of Italians in Italy, whose views and opinions do represent Italy and whose will does indeed give executive power, in the name of Italy, to overt fascists and racists. People outside Italy are shocked that someone like Berlusconi could be prime minister of Italy more than once and for so many years. People who have lived in Italy for many years (like myself) know that literally millions of Berlusconis walk the streets of that country every day. Berlusconi is indeed a very representative sample of what the average Italian today sounds and feels like.
and Indians are ???? Not racist? Funny I was in India one time and if you were white they look at you like your a freak. My one white friend said she was so scared
This coming from India a nation so far behind the times and a people so stupid and insecure that they use bleach on their skin to try to malke themselves look white. Speaking of criminals Indians have room to talk.
As a wealthy Indian, I would have liked to do some sort of Business with Italy – but after reading so many bad things about italians and their xenophobic / racist behaviour – I would rather not go there anymore. I hope the EU does something to bring law and order to this awful country.
Hello John,
I have been married to an Italian for about 10 years now and I can tell you that it was daily torture in most parts of her country. We’ve even had older people try to physically separate us on the bus or the underground – and then say – they thought I was “molesting” my wife… I mean- they could see us talking and laughing while holding each other – so where was the molesting? On Via del Corso in Rome- there are some “vulgar” people called Bulli or Coatti.. The insults, stares and rude comments were regular. In fact sometimes my wife pretended not to be Italian when we went into shops – and then we were seen as “rich” tourists and treated differently. They pretend they are all in “love” with the likes of Naomi Campbell, etc. but what is that? Blacks are only naked models and football players? It is all very sad.. not all Italians are like that There are many kind and generous people – but the daily tension can get exhausting- but if you want a good ” racially tolerant” holiday – Go to France or England… There – if they are rude to you – It’s ACTUALLY because they think you are local…. and they treat everyone the same – Hah! All the best!!
indeed my friend – what a nightmare Italy is for interracial couples…
I am a half-black, half-white American living in New York City. Although I am in the minority of Americans because I am from a large city, I can say for certain that NYC is nothing like Italy is being described here.
I am considering studying in Italy next year for a few months, due to the country’s rich history. I have been looking forward to it for some time now, and have even been taking Italian language classes in school to prepare.
Reading this has made me really skeptical about visiting. I had heard whispers of racism in Italy, but after seeing a youtube video of Italian soccer fans brutally taunting African soccer I decided to inquire further.
As I said I am half African American. In reality, I look like I could be Indian or Arab. My Italian is pretty raw at this point. I am not interested in moving to Italy, I just want to study there for a semester and not be victimized.
What do you all think? Can a tan-skinned American girl study in Rome or Florence without being harassed?
Italians are the most racist white supremacist people on the earth !
Look what they did to that poor Mario Balotelli footballer.
During the “friendly” match Italy – Romania the Italians supporters made monkey chants at him every time he touched the ball, they sang chants like “a negro can’ t be Italian” and they even showed a poster where it was written “a negro can’ t be Italian”.
Balotelli is born in Italy and he always live in Italy but his skin is black and in fascistland Italy that’ s the biggest disgrace.
Italians are the biggest blacks haters in history !
Italians are the biggest black haters in history. Please!!!!!!! The anglo/saxons have done more murder and slavery to minorities then any group on earth!
Really you seem to forget that most slave owners in America are WASPs that came to America on the Mayflower from ENGLAND that lead to the destruction of native american society and eventually enslaved and tortured blacks. Where do the Italians fit into all this.
He was adopted by ITalian parents you know those so called racist people
Having read half the comments here after considering Italy as a possible option for solo travel I have come to the conclusion that as a young, professional black woman, I shall not be visiting here.
Having read some of the twisted statistics regarding crime, jobs, etc I am appaulled that in these times people are still so closed minded, brainwashed, bitter, offensive and quite frankly lacking intelligence.
Everyone has a degree of racism/prejudice in their thinking and or behaviour/responses to people of different cultures but some of the posts I have read which justify poor treatment to people based on race or what another person of that race may or may not have done is down right disgusting.
I know alot of Italians are not racist however I shall be AVOIDING this place like thoe plague and I feel very sorry for those of you whos minds are infested with such poor values and understandings and tolerance of people from different cultures.
This world belongs to none of us, a country is not yours, if someone wishes to enter a country and has something positive to bring or seeks solace why not.
Stop blaming others for your problems and look internally at what you can do (in a positive manner) to help the economy.
This backward thinking happens in the U.K., so many British born people are able to work but dont then complain about forgeingers taking all the jobs.
Often forgeiners are prepared to do the jobs others are not, satisfied with the pay others would stiff their noses upto and inaddition actively seek employment.
The funniest comment I heard was a guy saying “you can even go to the council and get a house because all the foreingers are taking them up, I was on the waiting list for 3 years” this was whilst he was on benefits (government asistance). The way this guy was complaining you would have thought he was an incapable person who was not able bodied.
When I challenged him and say why where you on benefits for 6 years anyway, your fit and healthy he proceeded to let me know he had IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) which meant he couldnt work, now bear in mind we were sitting in McDonalds at the time… He just couldnt see the irony!
To top that off he actually loked at me and had made a 20 minute rant about forgeiners totally disregarding the fact that I was black. When I explained I found him offensive he proceeded to tell me I wasnt talking about you lot, I meant all those bloody Indians and Cosovons…..
Not all white people are lazy and not all blacks are theives and not all Italians (I hope) are racist but it is a sorry state of affairs if Italy is unable to deal with people based on skin colour and somehow attribute a complextion to your self worth, morals or values.
Whilst your leading into self destruction, be sure not leave the hell hole you created, stick it out. Ensure all the electronics you use on a daily basis are not made in Asia, become self suffient, dont send your products overseas and dont buy anything unless its Italian, Good luck with that lol!
I have been living in Italy since 2004. my family moved here starting with my father in 1988. all my siblings were born here. i went to college in America and i saw the difference. italians to be explained in simple words are IGNORANT, RACIST AND PRETENTIOUS people. They have little or no regards for Black people..They think we are criminals. i am only welcomed at places when i speak with the AMERICAN ACCENT. In my opinion Italy is NOT a good place for black people to live..they refused me jobs just because i am black…it is a shame because SOME Italians are good people BUT the MAJORITY about 😯 percent ARE RACIST….PLEASE BLACK AND DARK SKINNED PEOPLE AVOID THIS NATION which is not willing to change…PERIOD..ps i am currently suffocating in REGGIO EMILIA a town in nortthern italy..
I cant believe all of Italy is racist. I was born and raised in Belgium. I was adopted and I am brown skinned not dark but since I really dont know my heritage while growing up people seemed to be more tolerant but talking about rasiscm go to Belgium and really go to the states where I currently live. Its everywhere, but that will not ever stop me from going where I want to go. I will be going to Rome for a year hopefully I will not experience racism but if i do I bet you any amount of money it will not be as bad as I had it growing up in Belgium.
Hi Caroline, it’s been a few years since I wrote that post so it’s a surprise to see how many comments it’s still attracting! Thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts. Funnily enough I was back in Italy a few weeks ago, this time visiting Sardinia. I had an amazing time, despite a few funny looks and comments.
To be honest when I shared my thoughts about race and Italy I really hoped that it would provide food for thought, rather than act as a deterrent to people of colour travelling to Italy. Who’s to say the issues one may encounter in England outside of the M25 would be that different?? Please do keep sharing your thoughts and experiences
I definitely would say – I am sure I am in company.
Hey I am a young black American female living in Rome currently, I definitely feel the racial tension here in this country. If you are a black person (whether you are American,African, Indian etc), you will get stares, no matter what. Its as if black people are something new to Italy. As if Italians don’t have tvs, don’t go to the movie theaters, don’t watch sports, don’t listen to music. Its really sickening. Don’t get me wrong not all Italians act this way, but I will say the majority of the Italians do. And I can understand that the African vendors get on their nerves, hell they get on mine too, but I don’t shoo them away because they are African/black I shoo them away because I don’t want any of the goods they are selling.
You would think in the year 2011 racism wouldn’t still be alive, or that it wouldn’t be so obvious, but yet it still it is. Its so funny to see the Italian’s face when I open my mouth and they hear my American accent, because off the bat they think I am African because I have dreadlocks and I am brown skinned. Hell, even the PM Berlusconi referred to our President Obama as “the little tan man”. Its sad though, because the country is so beautiful, the food and the wine are lovely, if only the people could be mirror the beauty of their country!
Hi, thanks for sharing. I like the point you make about the street vendors. When I was living in Milan it was mainly Chinese people doing the selling but the reaction people had to them was the same. Are you studying in Rome?
Hi there,
points very well made for the simple reason that you have actually lived there. There’s so many people being very opinionated about this issue while they obviously don’t know how things are in Italy. I also did not know before I lived there for six long years. I especially liked your comment about how the beauty of the country is not reflected on the souls of people – something that my wife and I have many times said practically verbatim.
Italians are not only racist against black people – they are racist to anyone that is not close to a Nazi inspired ideal of the white “race” – including many Italians. Italian mainstream convictions about race are 65 years old even in academic circles simply because the Italian people have refused to accept the defeat of all they stood for 65 years ago.
Italy today is nation with a sick collective mind, infested with widespread pedantic, childish attitudes. Much like the terminally ill old man it walks about its often similarly ailing neighborhood cursing and gnarling.
F.
Im an iranian girl, 19 years old. 2 years ago, me and my 2 iranian parents went to italy; florence, milan, pisa, genova and venice. now although i may have been naive at the time, as ive noticed racism in every nation more as ive grown up, i did not experience any racism in italy in the short time i was there. i actually think due to our tanned skin and dark hair, they mistook us for italians as people talked to us in italian in the streets. anyway, ive really not noticed as much racism in italy as england. england sucks, and its only ever going to get worse. i definitely recommend moving somewhere a lot more tolerant and multicultural, such as canada. when i grow up, i definitely would like to live in spain, italy or canada.
Hey Mona, thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m glad you had postive experiences in Italy. I’m interested in your comments about England though. Why do you say it’s going to get worse? Do you live in a big city??
oh, but she’s not an Iranian girl at all. Not Iranian and probably not a girl. My bet is that HE is an Italian guy. There’s a bunch of”em going around trying to adulterate blog opinion. Look for the signs. They will always say racism is experienced in all nations (sure, but the point is how much racism and by how many) and UK is always worse at everything. What a bunch!
So you think there’s a conspiracy 😉 I’m not so sure, she sounded pretty genuine to me, plus she was only sharing her personal experience rather than making a general statement about the country as a whole. I’m sure you’ll agree that Mona’s comment is far from the worst we’ve had on this post. Thanks for staying with this one Fotios!!
oh, and you’re welcome!
I know there is a conspiracy. Italy has been conspiring on such matters since the end of the war – and they have been doing so not solely at a government level. There’s plenty of evidence for that – one just needs to look. Why don’t you ask her to prove who she is? She doesn’t have to go public. She could reveal her true identity to you only – say have a video chat on Skype and not even tell you her real name. I’ll take your word for it.
Fotios, don’t be silly. Mona, I think this is what is known as irony – picture a play area full of children from various backgrounds and of all colours, playing happily with or alongside each other, and my friend makes the most racist comment I’ve heard for a while – “There are too many foreigners here” The funny thing is my friend is a mature PhD student from Iraq (I assume about your skin tone) and the foreigners are (possibly British-born) fellow Muslims from Pakistan who choose to dress in traditional style.
Americans, get off your high horse, and consider that apartheid-style segregation was acceptable in “The Land of the Free” (?!) just a few decades ago.
The question is not Is XYZ country racist but How do we make the transition to a country where racism is unacceptable? People will always make split-second judgements about each other based on colour, dress, speech and mannersisms, that goes back to the dawns of time.
America has now accepted a mixed-race president and in Britain you would be arrested for calling someone “nigger”. But an awful lot of work has been put in by many people to get us this far.
How do we deal with racism in our own nations, workplaces, families? I think there is hope for Italy, but attack only leads to defence, and we foreigners will not win Italians over by harsh words or name-calling. Gentle questioning of attittudes or expressing shock at incidents of racism, like at the football match, may be more effective.
My Granny used to say “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar”
Wonderful – you guys have raised the level of this debate once again. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!! You raise such a good point about the work that has been put in by generations before us to get us to the point where we are today. How to begin answering the question of making that transition?? I’ll give this one some thought…
Ali, all good and dandy what you’re writing but again you’re putting Italy in the same bag with everyone else and that is unfair to the others – the others that like you have said have worked to get where they are – however imperfect. Have you lived in Italy? It is a different case my friend I am sorry to say. Oh, and Mona is a big Italian hairy fella. Wanna bet?
I went to italy on the 17th of march and i was supposed to to for six days.I black from London i went to visit old girlfriend and i found her view offensive and harsh.This compared to when she lived in London 15 years ago.In my one day in Rome i suffered way more rascism in the one day i was there than i have suffered in 5 years in London.I left after one day i was supposed to stay there for six days.This should tell you how uncomfortable i was made to feel.This should tell you that the racist problem far greater than many other part of europe. English jamaican indian other Italian even admit this.From what i see Italy is a couple of steps away from total neo nazisim.As a black person i would not live there for all the money on earth.I TOTALLY AGGRE WITH A LOT OF POST FROM PEOPLE ON THIS PAGE.AS A BLACK PERSON AND A BLACK MAN YOU SHOULD AVOID ITALY
P.S STOP BLAMING BLACKS FOR YOU PROBLEMS OF CRIME WHEN YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST SET OF CRIMINALS CONTROLING YOUR COUNTRY STOP USING BLACKS AS SCAPGOATS THEY ONLY MAKE UP 775.000 OF THE PEOPLE IN ITALY.CONFRONT THE MAFIA THATS WHERE YOUR PROBLEM IS WITH CRIME!!!!!!
word up Zoneman!
Folio it just the true !! thats all .When you tell the truth they can never answer you back
or maybe if they did they would be called Racist you idiot
haha, I am honored – a new nick just for me? What do you guys think? 14 year old or younger?
I think that people hating italians, insulting italians, is an example of the worst racism.
Well, it’s not cuz you see Italians are not a race. Time to open’em books!
yeah FoTIOS there an ethnic group and your a bigot
Italy is just a nation mate and it comprises people of different ethnic backgrounds. All we do here is criticize the racist aspects of mainstream Italian culture – aspects that are there because of ignorance and not because of biological or other imperative.
Fotios,I APPLAUD you for your ACCURACY on Italy. You managed to convey all that has been cooped up inside me for years ,after living in that terrible prison. I’m a Canadian of middle eastern origin ( I can pass for an Italian,but don’t tell them that!). The vetriolic stares I used to receive on a daily basis in italy really destroyed my self confidence,and made me feel like I was hated by the italians! I’m married to an Italian (one of the minority nice italians,luckily) and have lived in Italy for 6 long years before I finally told my husband that I can’t stomach another moment in his awful country. My experiences in that hellhole were much more serious. When I was studying in Milan, I got followed off the tram by a young Italian degenerate(yes, he was Italian,not one of those bad,evil foreigners that they always like to blame),who followed me to my apartment,forced his way into the entrance,pushed me into the elevator,and locked my arms back before I was raped. I went to the italian police,they did NOTHING……when I told my Italian roommate what had happened,first thing that came out of her mouth was “was he a foreigner?”… even sex crimes are blamed on the foreigners….funny how they can’t fathom the idea that one of their mammonies are capable of sexual violence. Thanks for spilling out the truth of these Italians (no, obviously not all of them) and you’re right…. there is definitely a great deal of Italians,posing as foreigners on the internet…trying to cover up the ugliness of their apparent reputation! Great article girovago80!
Very sad you story. Great that you were able to escape.
If you don’t like Italy, don’t live there. I love them so much because I am so tired of this P.C. multicultural crapola. You know what the elephant in the room is? MUSLIM. I think the Italians are smart and the Americans should take a lesson. A Muslim Imam personally told me that he thinks the Italian art treasures are idols and he and all muslims should blow them up! You want tolerance move to England, they seem to have no standards over there.
I know what the elephant in this and every democratic and free room in the world is. ITALIAN.
Reading all these comments has left me slightly confused and shocked, on what i should fully believe about italy and what i should wait and see for myself. I am a 18 year old black british citizen and looking to go to naples for about 3 days for an art project. On a holiday in Greece all the italian guys i met were all soo nice to me! But going to Italy itself may be a different story.. after reading this blog lol i heard from a friend naples wasn’t so racist because of the diverse community… is this true??
Naples isn’t very racist because their skin is a lot more “darker” than your typical italian and they are more diverse as your friend said. Besides there is a naval base there with plenty of black people so they are fairly used to seeing people with some color to their skin.
I am also realising that Sicily is not too bad – as far as cities are concerned; I don’t know the countryside as well as I do Palermo, Trapani and Ragusa.
Well, for one, I wasn’t aware that there was a severe issue with racism in Italia whatsoever. And I’m not the clueless type. The thing is, without even checking the stats, I am pretty sure that person was correct about the high crime with people of color. The reason for the French, and Germany problems, and here in the U.S. with people of color and crime, (thought I hate it) there’s a reason for it. It’s a cause and effect situation. When you oppress a people, socially/economically, and not treat them the same as people with white skin, they will have a high ratio of poor vs. wealthy. When a group of people are downtrotten and not given oppuritunities to achieve, they will become eventually a burden on society with housing, welfare, crime, because of the doors being closed to them. Your self worth dwindles to nothing. The same happened to Italians and Jewish folks when they first came over to the US. They were given bad jobs, treated like shit, and other whites painted an ugly picture of who they were as a people, because of the Italian mafia/Jewish Mafia. These gangs, were people tired of being poor and they got greedy, terrorizing their own people. But once things started leveling out a bit, when they weren’t being treated AS badly as before, that allowed them to prosper into the mainstream. Opposed to being judged right off for being Italian/Jewish, & Irish as well. Of course people still have a certain mindset towards them. You can never satisfy everybody, or prove yourself enough. Look familiar? Black Americans do the same thing. People won’t prosper if you don’t give them equal rights, oppuritunities to make a great living. Keeping them down, paying us less for the same job (YES, it is still going on) Treating them like they are less human because they are darker. But the worse thing about it, we didn’t come here on our own accord. And on top of the that, we built the foundation of this country for free. But didn’t reep the benefits, and then you add the Jim Crow, racism, KKK, and just general distrust of us as a people. That is not a good head start for success for my people. Things have changed in the U.S. but it took so long, things won’t just reverse magically and we’re all equal just because some time has passed, or our president is black. There’s no generational wealth, there is still discrimination, no matter how light you are, or how much education you have or how you speak. But this country has made HUGE strides and I wouldn’t live anywhere else. Everyone on here has had some valid points. There are some valid reasons for the fear of foreignors inundating your country. But ignorance will likely creep in and you’ll lose touch of common sense and morality, and it can easily turn into straight racism. ‘True equality’, to me, is the only chance that human beings will stop hating one another due to color. But there will always be a group that thinks the world is oppressing “them” to have to treat others the way they want to be treated. With a diluted sense of entitlement because of race, class or color
As a Black American man, with the misfortune of having to live in Italy with these people and their intractable racial practices, it is very difficult for me to respect and not hate them, as they show me on a daily basis how hateful, crude, disgusting, arrogant and stupid they are. Their behavior towards me chiefly because of my color, gives me a small taste of what race relations must have been like in America for people like me in the 1940’s or even before that time. I was so surprised that people acted like this in this day and age – the earlier poster who mentioned how his visit to an office had caused such a hysterical reaction in that stupid Italian woman because of his color, did not surprise me at ALL ! There are many people in Italy who behave like this – many, not all Italians disgust me !!!!
I live in northern Italy, Trento, to be exact. My family fought for these fools against the Germans in WWII, and I wished we didn’t ! The stares, the looks of hate that I receive from policemen, bus drivers is astounding and truly primitive. Bus drivers, if I’m standing alone on a bus stop, will routinely try to stop their buses as far away from me as possible, so as to try to cause me even the smallest inconvenience. Or, they will pause as long as they can before opening the door for me – like I said, I’m beginning to hate these people.
What made me put myself through all this torture? Why do I live here ? The only reason is that I have an eight-year-old daughter, whose mother is from this place, and she did not want to leave her job and career to live in America, so I had to leave mine. I’m an English teacher here, but my career in America was in government. I feel like a prisoner here, because I threw my life away when I had unprotected sex with this woman. I love my daughter, but I’m suffering having to deal with these people. They are so hateful and mean, and they think Italy is so great – I hate even coming out the house and having to even look at them ! I wish I could just scream out on a loudspeaker that I did not choose to live here, so don’t pat yourselves on the back ! I’m forced to be in your midst, because of bad decisions I made, and not because you are people I want to be around. I’m almost counting the years I have to be here until my daughter’s old enough not to need me so much ! I’ve even taken to wearing an American flag on my shoulder bag, as this helps blunt some of the racism. It’s like Pavlov’s dog experiment – when they see the flag, they seem to act a little more sensibly. I have little good to say about Italian people, now that I’ve had the experience of living in their country!
Please, I hope that there is some way that I could contact the other American bloggers who are still here in Italy, is there a way? I’d love to trade notes with them !
Thanks!
Hi Carlton,
I hate to be the one to break it to you but if your grandfather fought against the Germans in WWII then he fought against the Italians as well as they were Hitler’s allies. Mussolini, Hitler’s fascist ally and Italy’s beloved ruler at the time (still beloved today in the North of Italy), had his headquarters only 80Km from where you are (Salo).
One of the great post-war successes of Italy was that they managed to convince the world that they were actually on the allied side. Hell, they would not even be on the side of the allies TODAY.
I feel your pain – my wife who’s black felt it too while we were there. Try to get the hell out of this horrible place. Makes you old and and your mind goes dead.
Good luck,
F.
When people think about Italy they think about tasty food, art, nice clothes, history and so on, they never think that Italy is a country where during the fascist period of Mussolini black people (and jews) were heavily discriminated by the racial laws and black/white relationships and marriages where strictly forbidden.
When people think about racial segregation they immediately think about South Africa, the southern states of USA during the Jim Crow laws or the nazi Germany, for some reason they never think about Italy during Mussolini regime.
The reality is that Italy during fascism was as racist as South Africa during the apartheid years, that’ s why Italy is a so racist country against blacks and other dark skinned races.
Hey people, it’ s time to open your eyes about Italy!
I feel the same way Carlton, sometimes the stares and the way people treat you before even finding out that you’re American makes you want to stay in the house because it is so uncomfortable. Once they find out you’re American and not African or whatever else they kiss your ass, but by that time you are turned off by their actions. Its very rare that you find a “nice” Italian. This is a draining place, I too am counting down the days until I return home next summer.
I’m an American living in Sicily, Italy. I’m a person of color from California. I would say that Italians are some of the most ignorant, uneducated people I’ve met in a while…similar to Russians. Yet, they don’t know how ignorant they are. It’s amusing. I have more education than most of the people I come in contact with on a day-to-day basis and often their skin is my complexion or darker yet they’re still quite racist. I find it hilarious so I usually point it out to them since I can speak Italian. I will usually put my arm up to their arm and force them to look at the fact that they are the same color or darker, or I will be a stereotypical obnoxious American and throw up the fact that I have a Master’s degree in their faces or how many languages I speak.
I wasn’t like this before I arrived here, I was raised to be humble and not arrogant. However, my frustration with their happy ignorance has caused me to decide to be this way.
On another note, I do find that Northern Italians are more racist than people from the South of Italy. I hate Northern Italy and the people who live there are just obnoxious, ignorant, and obsessed with heritage. When I was in the North, I was asked at least twice a day what my ancestry was. When I told them I was a U.S. citizen they wanted to know if my ancestors had immigrated to the States and they would list a plethora of countries that have immigrants in Italy. A bad assumption because the U.S. doesn’t attract the same immigrants that Italy would, so why assume that? Then there is the fact that the majority of my ancestors were slaves and not immigrants….but that’s another subject.
However, I don’t understand this obsession with heritage or skin color especially since Italians are some of the darkest Europeans (read: white people) that I’ve encountered in my entire life. They have their nerve to be obsessed with skin color when they are really dark themselves especially after they spend their summer at the Amalfi Coast, Cinqueterre, San Remo, or Cefalu. Some Italians are as dark as Sri Lankans or Arabs from Tunisia. I find colorism based racism in Italy, hilarious.
I disagree with the poster, Bobby B., about how Eastern Europeans aren’t discriminated against. Not true! I have numerous friends who are Polish and Romanian and they hate it here because of the discrimination that they’ve had to endure especially with housing. I think that Italians think they are better than the rest of Europe and the rest of the planet. Nationalism maybe? Also, I’ve had friends visit from Sweden and the Netherlands and even though they’re white, they’ve noticed some of this behavior. It was nice to have some other non-Italian white people validate what I already know. Many of my Eastern European friends speak 4-6 languages and have commented on the fact that most Italians only speak their local dialect (Milanese, Siciliano, Calabrese) and Italian. Why are so many Serbians, Polish, and Romanians able to speak fluent English, German, Russian, etc and Italians can only speak Italian?
I can’t speak on immigration issues since Italy’s unemployment is 28% and I think that native Italians DO need jobs. So maybe immigration, even legal immigration isn’t good. However, discrimination and violence against immigrants is sign of ignorance and a xenophobic mentality.
Inspite of the negative comments I’ve made above, I have still really enjoyed my time in Italy and I’ve made some wonderful friends here that are not racists. It is a beautiful country, I hope that more Italians become educated, polyglot, and aware of rest of the world. It would be sad for them.
😦 aw this sucks. Guess i should cross it off my list of places to travel to. Australia,check, Russia,check. I love the idea of going to Italy-but I really don’t need more discrimination,whether discreet or not. Won’t waste my money in a country full of self-loving,self-aggrandizing people who’ll take me at facial pigment value. How about France?Should I tick that one off the list too?
I am a black South African. I was just thinking of racism in my country when I started looking at race relations in European countries. That is when I found this article. My brothers and I have always had this wild fascination with Italian cars, food ect. But after reading all of this I am shocked at the amount of racism that some people have to endure on a daily basis. South Africas race history is probably worse. As a black person the system, during apartheid, insured that you remained a servant to the white minority. But the level of racism in Italy has shocked me. In South Africa as a non-african foreigner you are treeated almost like a god if you are visiting the ghettos. You will have the finest of anything that people can afford to give you. I would think that ‘educated enlightened’ italians would do the same for people visiting their country. But the picture looks to be sad. Mussolini is still celebrated.
Its funny that during the negotiations, yes negotiations, for proper democracy all inclusive democracy, white people were told by white extremists that if these negotiations continue and the blacks take over, the anti crist will come and there will be a massive civil race war. 17 years later and we are still waiting for this war.
Looking at all of these comments, I am proud of the strives that my country has made since 1994. Race relations have improved a lot but there are those still trying to stir up fights ( Julius Malema, AWB). But in all of that alot more work still needs to be done. Blacks still make up the geatest of the poor. But I am glad I am South African. I have such an opportunity to help those less fortunate with what God has blessed me with.
I used to revere Italy but now it just dissapoints. I hope the oppressed get their freedom and justice they so richly deserve
Heya i am for the first time here. I came across this board and I find It truly helpful & it helped me out a lot. I am hoping to offer one thing back and help others such as you aided me.
Who is this bitter Greek fk Fotios think he is. Your insignificant backward little country has always looked up to us, Greeks copy us in everything they do. Envy my friend, thats what its called. The last time Greece mattered was 3000 years ago buddy.
As for this issue we Italians are a proud bunch, we welcome tourists with open arms but it is absurd to say we should suffer the thousands of illegal aliens coming to our shores each week in silence. These people are not Italians, they have no right to be in Italy.
Look at South Africa there was a minority there trying to rule the majority, the blacks there kicked them out quite rightly.
Simple as that.
Hi Marco,
the thing is I am not Greek and I fully agree that Greece is an insignificant country with a huge percentage of ignorant, idiotic and racist people.
Problem for you, I guess, is that Italy has the same problem – huge percentage of ignorant, lazy and racist idiots. I am afraid there are very few people left in the world that are stupid or uninformed enough to feel envy for Italy as it is today and especially as it will be tomorrow.
What makes this hilarious is that an incompetent and idiotic country like Greece still defeated you in WWII. Only Italians could go so low I guess.
So, have fun in your delusional world of denial – it’s the only thing you and the rest of the Italian paesanos got left (ok, there’s always cheese as well).
Yours,
Fotios
Fotios you need to get a life and better yet rather then complaining about Italians just stay away. I can assure you Italy is far better without a bigot like yourself. As an American I can assure you I know the fealing of being treated badly while being in a foreign country. I can also attest to the fact that all of Europe has the problem Italy is going through it just some countries are better at hiding their racism and have to based on their history of treating blacks and other minorities in other countries like crap. England, France and Germany have to walk on pins and needles look at their history of colonialism and slaver all over the world.
I find this all very amusing while in graduate school here in the US 12 years ago a German girl in an EU class one day criticized Italy for not doing enough to protect it’s borders from illegal immigrants. Now faced with mass immigration and umemployment their being condemed for doing what so many other Europeans wanted them to do years ago and still do to this day. Italains will always be the target of blame. LOL
Hi Dumb Liberal,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m not going to publish the rest of your comments as I find some of them a little offensive and think other people reading this blog might do too. Thanks for taking the time out to comment on this issue though….
Hi girovago80 insteresting how you take offense to some of the more truethful conservative opinions about immigration. Howeve,r you have no problem posting disparaging, bigoted remarks about Italy and Italians. Where you not concerned about Italians taking offense to some of the remarks made on this blog. Mr lotios who has been ranting hate speech about Italians all over this site referred to many Italians and Italian immigrants as criminals or calling them stupid. How hypocritical of you. I guess Italians are the last group that its ok to mock and slander. Its a shame you would not post some of my viewpoints because many of them make references to the hypocracy that exist in our world and how others are being used as scapegoats, like Italy. I bet you won’t even post this remark. Liberals are good at trying to silence the voice of others especially when the point to the truth. As the great Winston Churchhill once said:” If you are 30 and liberal you have a heart but if you are 30 and over you have a brain”.
Hi,
Thanks for your comment. You may be right that I’m guilty of having double standards here. In my defense I did write said post over three years ago and don’t generally have the time to peruse the dozens of comments that have been posted in the interim period so as to ensure editorial balance.
Hello girovago80 or shall I call you Ms British What no response?. British I think you should write an article on the history of racism from people of British decent. I think it would make for good conversation, eening as the British make the Germans, Russian, etc.. look like Mother Teresa Oh wait we can’t say her now can we she’s Catholic Oh no!!! the British hate Catholics. LOL.
All you British know how to do is right articles against countries you most strongly envy while everyone else could give a dam about the British. Cheers! Dumb Liberals
Hi, you raise a fair point about racism in Britain. I definitely wouldn’t say the Brits are guilt free. I could write a post on it but a simple look at the mainstream media’s coverage of the riots that took place over the summer here illustrates that point in a far better way than I ever could.
I have made no bigoted remarks about Italians. All my references, mostly explicitly but also implicitly, are to “a large (or huge) percentage of Italians”. This is not racism of any sort (Italians are not a race) and all I am pointing out is contingent cultural choices and modes of thinking that are plain wrong, antiquated and insensitive. This is something that each and every Italian can change. It is not the color of their skin nor the color of their heart (although some would disagree with the latter). Italy is the country of the lotus tree. A lot of people got hooked on the lie of the dolce vita and forgot how to fight, how to grow, how to evolve and finally how to think. They are not alone. Most of Europe is culprit to the same charges. Italians are definitely the champions though.
If the story ended there I would not have made mention of Italy in any of my writings – at least not a lot. However, as fate would have it, I had to spend 6 years there, working for another now collapsing European collective entity, the European Commission. How shocked was I when I discovered that this was a country frozen in time – even worse the minds of most people seemed to have been in deep freeze for way too long. The bigotry, the racism, the xenophobia, the isolationism, the denial of historical facts, the psychotic break with reality. A country of 30 and 40 somethings that never left their mama’s crib. I was flabbergasted.
So, dumb liberal, face it. Nobody is dumb enough to be envious of Italy. This “envy” that you speak of is only in your mind – a delusion. Nobody wants to be Italian and this has been the case for at least 70 years. The only ones who would want that are desperate immigrants, renaissance nostalgics and old people who want to eat some lotus and forget the pains of the real world.
Oh, and by the way, I am very much against illegal immigration. Immigrants, in all their pain and desperation simply don’t get it, but the rest do: if immigration is left unchecked at some point there will be no developed countries to immigrate to. Bad for the immigrants, bad for us. Yes to maxed out legal immigration. Absolutely no to illegal immigration.
Thank for your patience girovago80.
Fotios do you not understand the difference of the meaning of the word bigot from a racist? Are you truly that ignorant aside from being extremely insecure and JEALOUS. You really need to get a life.
Fotios it is rather you who are the delusional one. A very sad one who needs to get help for the inner hatred of yourself you project upon others who you feel inferior to.
Dumb Liberal, your poor and pedantic replies clearly demonstrate your mental aridness. At this point I am not sure if getting the education that you obviously never had will help much, but you should try. There’s community colleges you know and if you’re poor and can’t be bothered with books and stuff I’ll get some liberals to chip in. We liberals don’t mind helping lost and frightened little Italian boys. Come one now, don’t cry! I’ll buy you Armani.
First fotios I am no boy, boy and I guess a masters degree from Brown University is too grand for your simple Greek mind Goodbye loser.
Hi Fotios, you know during the period I spent here in Italy I understood one thing: Italians are unrecoverable.
Their minds have been so brainwashed by the fascism that now there is no remedy for them.
They think racism is ok and that blacks are sub humans.
To discuss with them is just wasted time.
I know Italy very well and I understand the pains you went through with your wife in Italy, that’ s probably the worst place on the earth for living for a black person and a real nightmare for black/white couples.
Good luck for you and your wife.
yeah, it seems pretty hopeless. Thank you Robson. BTW, we are not in Italy any more 🙂
I notice how racist Italians are on this post .They don’t even challenge the black peoples views.Because they think Blacks in genaral are sub human Im African and i find that it is sad that some on this post have to wear American flag.So you don’t feel intimidation because you have African skin.In italy i once had a beautiful italian girlfriend and she wanted me to move to L’aquila italy in 1994.Being a little bit in the know about Italians said no.I was 25 then im 42 and i don’t regret my decision not one bit!!!.
I recently met my old Girlfriend on facebook and went to Rome to see her in 2011.From my visit i knew i made the right decision long time ago not to go and live in Italy.!!! I told my Jamaican friend i was going to Italy his response was muted.When i got back and told him about i experiance he said he was not surprised.He has so said by not having a long term relationship with that Italian girl you dodge the bullet(,meaing a life of hell)!!!.I know to a black guy going out with a Italian girl is a poison chalis!!!.As for me i regard the majority of them as neo-nazi!!! thats the pure truth on earth enougth said.
The 20 something swimming instructor at the pool told me – you will never get very good since black people don’t float well. When I challenged him about my being sort of a mixture – he went on to say that it would be important to measure how MUCH white I had in me. This in the LATE 1990s. These people still SOMEHOW believe in Eugenics – the basis for Nazi, Belgian, Dutch and British conquests and racial classifications around the world… Hutus and Tutsis and all that. Then to add insult to injury – I mentioned what had happened to a dear friend who is still close and loves me like a father to a son – He responded – “Well – isn’t that right? Your muscls are different – you can run, you can sing, you can do certain things better and certain things worse because of your race”!!! I was STUNNED. Thank GOD for the Williams Sisters, Tiger Woods and the myriad of Chinese Olympic Swimming champions! It’s sad but I’ve given up. I don’t try to challenge anyone any more except the ones I have proper friendships with – Some of my friends are lovely and I find ways to excuse their ignorance and I forgive them and let go – but others,especially the younger,I feel I HAVE to say something! They end up treating me like I am paranoid or something – but then I say – try walking in my shoes and skin for a few days….but I won’t give up – at least not for the ones there who are important to me. We HAVE to participate in their “re-education”. There must be hope.
Great post Kieran. There’s even University professors appearing on Italian State TV and talking this 1940s crap. In Italy everything is antiquated including bibliography, but what’s mostly lacking is the capacity to learn new things and accept there are serious errors in their current knowledge and understanding of the world.
Italian society nowadays is the same as it was in the 1940s during the fascist regime of Mussolini, there are no more racial laws but the idiology of the italian society is not changed.
They still belive in white supremacism and other fascist bulls**t and the saddest thing is that even the younger people still hold this sick views.
That’ s a pity because Italy as a country is a very beautiful country, but my god most of the Italians are sick racist people.
They should change the name of the country from Italy to KKK nation.
Racism is horrible and certainly not limited to Itay. The British, Germans and French are better at hidding it. As a black women who visited Europe a few years ago I should know. In those countries as soon as you turn around and your not looking people talk about you like you are the scum of the earth and then when they look at you they give you a fake smile. I guess some are more honest about it.
bobwall is the same Italian boy that was posting above 🙂
Wrong Fotios I am black I hear what you are saying about Italy but I have also had horrible experiences elsewhere. It is rather just wishfull thinking to think only one sector of white society in Europe is like this when others are just as bad if not worst and iam not just speaking of today but a history of ugly hatred. Word up my brother. Are you sure your not Spike Lee
What a character…
Nice try bobwall, unfortunately no one here believe you’ re a black woman.
Ciao paisa’
Anyone interested in social issues such as racism against minorities in Europe and around the world go to http://www.globalissues.com under racism. Fotios who pretends to be an advocate for minorities particular blacks is a fake. His country Greece was recently deemed the worst offenders of hate against minorities in Europe according to this site. He trying to take heat off his own sad pathetic country and place it on Italians who history have always been jealous of them. Greeks can be the most hateful people on earth
Not to mention Greeks are one of the most tribal they rarely marry outside their own and not to mention one of the most unloyal people you will find on the planet. Rarely do I hear from people that visit Greece that the people are nice like the Italians People like Fotios are examples of how hateful some Greeks arem They have an ugly jealous streak in them. Its like poisonous venom frpm a snake. His true intentions are not sticking up for black people his only agenda is to try and tear others down like the Italians.
Only an Italian would argue that just because someone’s country has a serious racism problem he can’t advocate against racism. This post by bobwall demonstrates very well some of the retarded aspects in mainstream Italian thinking.
Regarding Greece, the best place to look for evidence, commentary and historical analysis regarding racism, ignorance and idiocy in this country is my own blog: fotios.org
Just search for “Greece” and “Greek” or “Italy” and “Italian” and you shall find plenty.
BTW, racism is not a black-white thing only. There’s white-white racism and there’s black-black racism as well (see racism in Africa among Africans). Racism in Europe today is mainly black-white though and the EU champions are Italians, closely followed by Greeks (especially recently) and maybe the Spanish – but the Spanish are nowhere close to these two.
I’ ve just read a new about Italy
In a southern Italian school, located in a city called Caserta, a 12 years old black girl was upset with her geography teacher because in a school text she gave the same answers that her other class mates gave but she received a lower score, when she asked the theacher the reason of this different treatment between her and the other pupils the teacher answered ” it’ s because you’ re black, you are not like the other pupils, you have no rights because of your skin’ s color “.
The girl went home and she told that to her mother, the mother told the story to the school officer and when the school officer questioned the othe pupils, all of them confirmed what the black girl said.
This new is true and you can find it also on many italian internet sites if you can speak italian.
Can you believe it, it’ s incredible!
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THAT’ S ITALY !
Yeh i going to believe some bias Greek the gig is up. Your are as Fake as they come.
Wrong fotios Greece is ranked the worst not Italy. I know you would like to think other wise. Only would a Greek exploit an article wriitten by a Brit to try to get people to believe otherwise People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones Fotios that includes the hypocritical British who stick a black soccer player on their national team and somehow think they are beyond every other European on race issues. Lol
By the way Fotios I am not only Italian but French anf German as well I am also not European and yes I am an Italophile who loves the people and the country. I have visited there a few times and was treated with respect and warmth which Italians are know for. I am sorry for the blacks on this site who have been treated otherwise that is shameful and must stop. But I can assure you not every Italian is like this and loves people of African heritage. We are all brothers and sisters
I have absolutely no problem with Greece being ranked worse than Italy when it comes to Racism. I mean, both being so horrible does it really matter who’s ranked first?
I think now it’ s pretty clear from his posts that bobwall is not a black women as he wanted we believe, LOL.
Why didn’ t you simply say you’ re an Italian? Pretending you’ re a black women you have lost all of your credibility.
I think Greeks are more xenophobic than racist, they are suspicious with everyone who is not Greek, it’ s not a question of skin color or race.
Italians are pure racists, what they have is pure racism because they are nice with white foreigners but they are very racist with blacks foreigner even with blacks that are born in Italy.
Italians hold racist views about the race and they belive in white supremacism.
Italian racism is directed towards the ones that they don’ t consider as aryans, those are blacks and other dark skinned races.
In Italy 99,9% of the episodes of racial discrimination are against blacks, never against Russians, Albanians, Moldavian or even Chinese.
Look I know of a lot of blacks who hate whites so your point is. Racism is racism and it sucks regardless of who the racist is.
Greeks are more xenophobic??? LOL Really!!!! Not according to reports of violent acts of hate crimes against blacks and other minorities in Greece. Sorry my friend you have been told wrong.
First of all bobwall I doubt you know a lot of blacks, usually Italians from Italy don’ t make frienships with blacks cause they considered them as inferior.
Some blacks hate whites because they have been treated like crap for a long time by some whites, not because they think the black race must rule the white race because the white race is inferior or other fascist bull***t, anyway this is a topic about racism Italy and I was not talking about the white race in general but about the italian people, the majority of the white people around the globe are tolerant and not racist but Italians are another story, most of them are sick racist with a twisted mentality
I agree, racism sucks regardless of who the racist is but that you should tell it to your Italian compatriots that have an immense hate against blacks.
I am not from Italy I am an American and a very proud one at that
That is a bunch of over generalized bigoted BS that your stating about Italians. That like me stating blacks hate all whites/Italians. (Hen again from the sounds of some on this post it could be considered true and just as mean and hateful
Whatever Bobwall – who’s going to believe in anything you say? It’s obvious you don’t care about the truth. All you wanna do is support Italy regardless of anything else. You got some growing up to do. I hope in 10 years you won’t be the same. Chances are you will unfortunately, joining countless others in or from the country this lovely page is about.
Fotios again your a fraud you don’t want to hear the truth Whos belives you. You denied you where Greek earler when you stated you were on this site as well.
oh – but I am not Greek any more. I was born Greek and grew up there but I have left right after high-school – more than 20 years ago. 10 years ago I got the American citizenship and although I still hold a Greek passport as well, I got nothing to do with that country any more. I certainly would not fight for that country nor do I feel any particular love for it. So…
Fotios Greeks just like Italians never lose their heritage we just become more American over time. I am a four generation American on my dads side
Well, the more you say this kind of stuff the more you make my case. So, please keep doing it. The people who were most Greek were the ancient Greeks – people with no history but people who made history – enlightened barbarians if you like. The more history you got the more of an idiot you become – it’s just a package that you carry for no reason other than pride and pride for what others (the ancestors) have done is definitely a sin. If you can transform history to knowledge that’s fine but that’s not what modern Greeks or Italians have done – instead they “wear” their histories and heritages like medals. So, mate, I got no “Greek” heritage, just desire to create value by my own right – and that right got no ethnicity or color but it would be immediately recognized as kin by any great civilization on this earth including the American one.
Again Fotios your are missing and distorting everything I am saying once again. Just like your trying to distort the truth. Citizens of African heritage, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc here in America are all Americans but also part of our identity is our ancestors all of which each one of us should be proud of. Why should anyone denouce or be ashamed of who they are? That’s what I love about my country we can interact and enjoy other culturesm Fotios as someone mentioned on this blog earlier you have issues with youself you need to work on. I sorry to say I don’t think you like yourself very much let alone be able to tolerate people of other backgrounds and I am not saying this to be mean like you
Fotios it is people like you that look to further divide people rather then seek unity.
It is very simple bobwall. There is nothing wrong with changing what is old, stale and not corresponding to a reality that has changed. It is called evolution. It is exactly those who love themselves and others that change to accommodate a new world reality, new knowledge and understanding.Those who don’t, we call them dinosaurs and it is their inescapable fate to die off. See Greece, a country soon to go to rogue state level and then perhaps be absorbed by Turkey (so much for the proud Greeks) and Italy, 70 years ago a super-power and now a country a couple of steps away from bankruptcy, gravely corrupt public sector, and people becoming less competitive on an international level by the day while their minister cry publicly because they can’t even stand the thought of financial sacrifices. So, who’s the one with the self-defeating suicidal tendencies here? Certainly, not me. You average Greek and Italian citizen? Hell yeah!
LoL Italy a superpower since when? Now I know your information and history is so messed up.
and after a dozen or so of your posts with not even a single intelligent thought in them, but accusations galore, I know it would have been more challenging and certainly more rewarding if I had this conversation with a chatter-bot. I knew of course that you could not offer much but I used you as a type of prompting automaton in order to better structure my thoughts that I wanted to post anyway. Thank you bobwall – sounds like a bot name too.
So the US is faced with a huge debt crisis as well do you think we will be exstinct as well?
Fotios anyone who voices an opinion unlike your own is nothing but unintelligent in your view. Ahhh poor Fotios he has been called out for his stupidity and hypocracy not to mention being a fraud. Finally someone not drinking the cool-aid your trying to hand out. You can’t deal with it you have been exposed. For those seriously interested in issues effecting race relations around the world please visit http://www.globalissues.com for an unbiased opinion on these matters not from an angry hate monger looking to further divide people
yes, and don’t forget to also visit the following wonderful links. Basically the European Commission, a body extremely reluctant in singling out countries, here singling out Italy as particularly problematic when it comes to race relations, as well as the UN and the Vatican itself (the Vatican!) speaking out against Italy when it comes to racism:
– EC on Italian racism: http://bit.ly/vxFffX
– Vatican and UN on Italian racism: http://bit.ly/6ai4cL
There’s countless references like that all over the web. Italy is exposed for good.
yes, and don’t forget to also visit the following wonderful links. Basically the European Commission, a body extremely reluctant in singling out countries, here singling out Italy as particularly problematic when it comes to race relations, as well as the UN and the Vatican itself (the Vatican!) speaking out against Italy when it comes to racism:
– EC on Italian racism: http://bit.ly/vxFffX
– Vatican and UN on Italian racism: http://bit.ly/6ai4cL
There’s countless references like that all over the web. Italy is exposed for good.
That nice fotios for every article you have found I have many others about Greece and other European countries and African nations of black tribes killing other black tribes sadly. The reason you see only Italy is you don’t care to look up other countries on racism on the internet. Nice try Fotios.
Would be great to see you post such articles from sources as reputable and unbiased as the EU, UN and the Vatican (although the last one does have a sweet tooth for pedophile priests)
Obviously those articles can’t be about particular incidents of racism in some country. Even you should understand that they have to be about the problem of racism in a country as a whole and in comparison to other countries or compared to a certain norm as construed by organization that published the report/article.
oh, you can also include articles about third world countries as long as you believe Italy is in the same bag. Got no problem with that 🙂
Fotios I will but it will take all day trust me and for some one who hails from Greece which many Europeans don’t really acknowledge as part of Europe more middle eastern in mentality and culture.LOL
Italians are not far from Greeks as far as racist perceptions are concerned and I agree that most Greeks are more middle Eastern than they are European. My gripe also, but again, aren’t you out of subject here? We’re talking about Italy and we are waiting for these articles – you said there were many?
No we are not out of the subject here. You just made a reference to the third world and Italy well thats laughable coming from a Greek that comes from an insignificant country like Greece. Again all you have to do is google Racism and the countries name like Britian, Spain, Russia, etc and you will find plenty of articles. Really Fotios it is not that difficult even for you.
but I certainly does seem as if it is too difficult for you, cuz we’re still waiting on the articles and we haven’t seen them. So, what’s up wit dat dude?
I hear you about the Vatican but the Pope says Greek men have no room to talk when it come to boys and Goats especially.
TWO BLACK MEN KILLED TODAY IN ITALY IN FLORENCE BY A FASCIST
Today in Italy, in the centre of Florence, two black men have been killed by an Italian neofascist of 50 years old, they’ ve been shot down during a racist assault.
Now that’ s a not so shocking new because in Italy killings and lynchings of blacks are quite common so when those things happen no one in Italy is surprised but the shocking new is that usually killings and lynching of blacks happen in small and unknow towns but this time it happened in a touristic city like Florence.
Now if you’ re black and you have planned a trip to Italy, for God sake delete your trip and choose another country
Italy is very dangerous if you have the black skin, if you’ re lucky you can only get some nasty looks or someone can be just rude to you but if you’ re unlucky you can also be killed just because you’ re black, don’ t put your life at risk just for a trip.
In Europe there are a lot of countries where you can go without this racism problems, France, Spain and Portugal are beatiful countries, especially France and Spain don’ t have anything to envy to Italy, and you ‘ll be safe.
ITALY IS NOT SAFE IF YOU’ RE BLACK.
Dud good luck in those countries especially Spain!!!!
Hey, bobwall, tough having your arguments overturned by reality itself, huh? It’s even tougher if you black in Italy dude.
Hey, bobwall, tough having your arguments overturned by reality itself, huh? It’s even tougher if you black in Italy dude.
Tough being challenged by reality itself, huh bobwall?
Non of my arguements have been overturned just reinforced by a bunch of jealous,hypocritical morons like youself who are just as bigoted as the people you claim are racist And if Italians are so horrible why bother speaking about them at all. Why waste your time on people who apparently do not matter to you. Hummm
I’ ve spent one year in Spain for the Erasmus project and I never saw or heard of a black man killed or lynched not even a racist assault against blacks. I saw blacks and whites going out together, something that doesn’ t exist in Italy, I saw blacks working in shops, something that doesn’ t exist in Italy and I saw black/white couples, something that doesn’ t exist in Italy.
Plus I saw many black tourists from US, France and UK being treated very well.
Really and I heard about Spanish fans shouting monkey chants at black players at football games, a African man getting beat up in madrid would you like me to continue.
Funny when I was in Milan I met black owners of bars and shops what are you talking about.
Yes robinson they were not just workers but OWNERS
Spanish fans used to shout monkey chants at black footballers, now they don’ t do it anymore.
Italian fans shout monkey chants at black footballers EVERY saturday and sunday during italian football matches, they also insulte black footballers that are born in Italy and are Italian citizens.
Did you ever hear about a guy called Mario Balotelli? He moved to England because in Italy was impossible to live for him because he was constantly insulted on the pitch and in everyday life because he’ s black, Italians always shout at him “there are no black ni**ers”
Once in Rome the Italians even threw some bananas at him while he was in a bar.
Black owners of shops and bars in Italy! Are you kidding me isn’t it? Indians and Pakistans yes, they own some shops in Italy, Chinese own a lot of shops and bars in Italy but black? LOL. No way.
No one Italian in Italy would do shopping or drink a coffe in a shop or bar owned by a black person.
Really Robson and how do you know this about the chanting. This is something I heard of recently not to mention it in articles I have read in recent years that I would be more then happy to direct you to.I never heard this happening in Italy. Some stuff you are making up. Its no use trying to talk to someone who never spent a day let alone a year in Italy nor is open to other views and opinions. But is determined to hold view of a group of people he truely does not know.
It is true, I studied in Italy-Rome and very often I encountered such things! I, myself have been a victim of segregation by police-calabinieri and guardia di finanza, Italian autobus ticket controllers, metro train ticket controllers to most of whom I showed direct attack after proving to them I had everything including abbonamento for buses and metro trains, valid permesso di soggiorno, and told them I was not a clandestino! These guys are mad! Being black for them means criminal unless proven otherwise, may be, when another Italian who knows you greets you with that cheerfulness of familiarity! ignorance and narrow-mindedness is their greatest problem! Let’s forgive dem for they know not what they are doing but they should learn how to behave humanly! Ofcourse, there are a number of good people in Italy you would never have imagined to live amidst such a chaotic racial influenced idiots!
Bobwall how can you don’ t know about the racism against black players in Italian football?
Where do you live? on Mars? Or maybe do you live in the USA?
Italy is the home of racism in football, just try and have a look on internet.
If you’ re from USA then I understand you, because Americans don’ t know anything about Europe but if you are European how can you don’ t know about the racism against black player in Italian football?
I did not say there exist no racism against black players in Italy or blacks in general. No one on this site is arguing that point. However, you make it out to be like somehow Italians are the worst or sole offenders of this and I have facts and proof that state otherwise. Funny when I have talked to Italians about this subject they seem to think that we Americans are the ones with the problem. It seems that the minority of people in Italy who are racist are painting a dark cloud over others in the country just like many other countries.
bobwall is a troll, ignore him.
bobwall is a troll, ignore him
What back again Marcel? And you are? Apparentley you have been making the rounds on the internet bashing Italy and Italians. Many bloggers on Yahoo know you all to well. Go back to the ignorant, jealous rock you came out from under.
Marcel is an idiot ignore him
I am going to Italy in a few days to study abroad and all these post have gotten me quite scared. I’m 20 years old AA women from long island. I’ve tried to ask people about the racism in Italy but people have said they were mostly racist against Africans or Other Europeans down playing the African American racism. I mean i have no choice but to go now, so thats not the problem the problem is i dont want to go over there and have a terrible time so far away from family and comfort. I really hope the racism is sublime cuz then i can deal with it because just like here in long island. Ehh im exicted regardless its an American Program hopefully when I am out with the students it wont be as bad.
Hi Faye, I don’t think you should be scared. You’ll be annoyed sometimes – that’s for sure. How often really depends on where you’re going. The further to the North and the smaller the town the more often you’ll experience racism. Try to keep the good stuff from your experience. I am sure you’ll meet a few decent people as well. Good luck!
Hey Fotios visited your pathetic website and noticed a few pictures and facts missing from the 1940’s you seem to constantly refer to about Italy. One of the Italian people hanging the fascist el Duce, and the other stating facts how of all european nations Italy’s Jews had the highest survival rate, over 70 percent. That because many of the so called majority facist in Italy you claim existed went against el Duce and knew what he was doing was wrong and disgusting. Many of Germans enemies where not the Italians enemies, like Greece. In fact the Royal family in Italy was sent into excile for their support of the facist regime and told to never return. There exist a wonderful book on WWii by a British historian by the last name of Keegan, I encorage you to read it. Sadly, it seems like the picture, movies and TV shows is where you got your information from not from a formal education or credible sources.
Hey Faye what part of Italy will you be in? From my experience not ALL of Italy can be ignorant towards people with darker skin. When I visited the smaller towns in the countryside such as Orvieto and Deruta I felt not one stare. People were very welcoming and nice, if it weren’t for the cobblestone and old ass buildings I would’ve forgotten I was in Italy lol. I live in Rome and the people here can be very rude, but I suppose that is just an Italian/culture thing. Im AA with dreadlocks so that definitely gets me quite a few stares a day, which in the beginning bothered the hell out of me. I’m from DC where I’ve never experienced any form of racism or an insane amount of ignorance, but after a few months the stares and whatnot wont even phase you. But since you will be around students of your age you probably wont experience it as much. Ive traveled all around the world, lived in Asia, Central America, Africa, and visited various places in Europe and Italy is by far the most “racist” places I’ve ever visited. Its a different thing when you know people have never seen black people “in real life” but for you to be blatantly racist and rude to a person because of their skin color is just crazy. But don’t let these comments on this blog deter you from enjoying yourself in Italy, it is a beautiful and historic country, just ignore the rudeness and ignorance as much as possible. FYI- they place your change in stores on the counter top versus giving it to you in your hand like we do in America, it took me awhile to get used to this and not feel disrespected. Enjoy the food and enjoy the history while you’re here!
PS-Be prepared to step in crazy amounts of dog shit because the Italians do not believe in picking up after their dog as it is not much grass here for the dogs to poop in so they have to do their business on the concrete sidewalk!
I never knew staring at people somehow makes someone a racist. I am white and when I went to italy I got stared at a lot. Many knew right away I was American. How is it every black person on this site considers that racism. This is so weird. And yes some people in Rome where a bit rude and snotty to me but most Italians as many are considered where some of the most friendly of all Europeans I have met.
It is such a shame for people who have experienced Ku Klux Klan lynchings and other horrors themselves to have become so racist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Italianism
I am glad to see how you reconized what Italians have endured Fotios as immigrants here in America along with the Irish, polish, Jewish, etc. So quit labeling all Italians as racist and shoving them into a corner Don’t look now but I think your acting just like the KKK.
Hi Faye, you will be physically ok in Italy because you’ re a woman so they will not beat you or shoot you, they do it only to black men.
You will get nasty looks and people will be rude to you but at least you will be not injured.
If in your group there are people who are blonde and with blue eyes just stay with them because Italians love aryan looking people and you will be more respected.
If there are some black guys in your group tell them not to approach white Italian women because this can be quite dangerous.
If you are going to stay in Milan you will have no problem, it’ s the most advanced and multiracial city in Italy, if you are going to stay in Rome be careful, if you are going to stay in Verona well…good luck! I just hope you will not stay in a region called Veneto, it’ s the most racist region of Italy.
If you behave yourself carefully you will have no problems.
Enjoy your time in Italy and good luck!
Nobody said just by staring at someone, that it made the person racist. Its how you treat people. Until you experience racism you won’t know what it feels like.
Trust me I have and it was from black people in America
liza9999 is bobwall – just ignore him
Ignore reverse discrimintion. What Fotios that doesn’t exist in your delusional world. By the way I am not Liza9999 I think it kills you that other people aside from myself disagree what being said on this site non Italians included. It more like ignore Fotios the Greek fraud with his people the worst bigots on earth not to mention the most jealous!!!!!!
Well thats just unfortunate. But as I stated before, racism doesn’t just come from staring at someone.
I find it very sad that people are actually scared of coming here to visit or stay for a limited period, but the experiences i’ve red here and on fotios’ blog are dreadful.
I agree that Italy is undoubtedly 20-30 years behind the Uk and other countries when it comes to integration and multiculturalism. Might it have something to do with Italy having experienced mass immigrations years later than the other big European countries – hence the delay? I don’t know, but yeah for a black italian or a black person living in italy things are not easy, and i find very strange that what many italians find fascinating in multicultural cities/countries is the variety of cultural and ethnic backgrounds coexisting – yet accepting different skin colors/cultures here seems requiring too much effort.
I may have rose tinted glasses but i see hopes for the future – young people travel more, grow up with foreign people as classmates/friends and often seem much more aware of the cultural gap between this certain mindset and the mentality in more advanced countries than their parents are.
Very positive and encouraging post Anna. Let’s hope it is going to be so.
Yeah Fotios let’s hope the same for Greece.
Yes, let’s hope the same for Greece as well. Oh, wait, isn’t this a blog entry about Italy? Bobwall, are you trying to change the subject again?
No Fotios just commenting on hypocritical and stupid people are for commenting or writing articles about other countries problems with racism when they have no room to talk. Take the British for example yes in the past 15 to 20 years they have made some strides to combat racism by enacting certain legislation. Unfortunately they are also the last to critize other countries for their problems with racism. They not only have an ugly history with blacks, particularly here in America with slavery but with every other people on the face of the earth.
In one case you go back hundreds of years (British and slavery) and in the other thousands (Greek pedophiles). This is all you can do because when it comes to present day we all know who the World Champs are: Italians. This is what the subject of this page is: racism in Italy today. Thus you are once more off subject and of course we’re still waiting on those “easy to find” references that you never provided. You’re making it too easy for me man! Come on, squeeze that Italian testata a bit more!
Fotios until every present day country eradicates racism then they need to sit down and shut up before pointing a finger at some other country. Fotios regardless of if it was yesterday or today or 100 years ago slavery, segregation which only ended in the 1960’s and not being allowed to vote are still fresh in the minds of many blacks in America today. And my Italian, French, German TESTA (not testata LOL) is just a smart and bad ass as ever thank you
Obviously it is “testata” in your case mate…
IMHO the most racists countries tend to be the most religious – Italy is well catholic and very racist especially these days.
You just need to turn the tv on, hear politicians ranting about immigrants, homosexual, and even Italians themselves ( the lazy southerns vs the industrial northerners cliche’ ) …yeah they can’t even stand each other let alone other races.
excellent point
Actually some of the most brutal dictatorships and racist incidences happened under Socialist and Communist regimes who have tried to ride society of religion and ones right to practice their faith. Case in point China and the Monks of Tibet as just one example. They have a deep respect for life unlike some others I will not mention
What a horrible argument! Atrocities done by the few violent anti-religion regimes we’ve witnessed simply can’t compare to those done by theocracies over centuries and centuries. From the Egyptians and the Persians to the European Christian middle ages and the Arab and Ottoman Turkish Islamic states to today’s Taliban and Iran, there’s probably hundreds of millions deaths in the name of some God. Of course there’s always Italy – the country that claims to be a civilized one while most of its people believe in 1940s eugenics theories and cry when they see the Pope. Oh well…
Most people in Italy believe in the Eugenics theory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now I know Fotios we are dealing with a really sick person with a sick agenda we are done with you and this whole site
Actually, you’re one of the very few around here surprised at this remark. Anyone who’s lived in Italy, talked to Italians, read Italian newspapers and watched Italian TV knows that. First time I witness such an advanced stage of multiple-personality disorder; now he’s referring to himself in plural! Ahaha, what next!
Fotios this is not funny anymore and yes there are a group of us looking at your remarks not just myself and we really are questioning your well being and are not making fun of you anymore. Please get some help.
oh, actually it is quite funny to me – I love ridiculing retarded racist Italians. So, please, don’t leave us yet!
Fotios your anger and hateful demeanor really are troubling. Obviously people that act like you like skinheads and the KKK all come from troubled backgrounds.
Makes absolutely no sense what you just wrote – as usual.
Of course it doesn’t to someone who is troubled, has been brained washed or experienced some kind of trama maybe by an Italian. I don’t know. I am not saying that to try to put you down or be mean to you. I along with others reading these post, many of whom by the way are not of Italian desent or 100% Italian think your way of thinking goes beyond rational.
This is all crap – hiding behind your anonymity you can claim anything you like; even that you’re the Pope and that you’re writing this from the Vatican. But you see, anonymity is a double edged-word. Others can claim whatever they like about you. I say you’re an inbred mamma’s boy who likes to shove his little wiener in jars full of anchovies. Who’s to stop me from saying anything I like about you. Wanna ends this? Think it is not funny anymore? Wanna prove me wrong? Come out in the open man – tell us who you and your friends standing around the computer are – what. no chairs and only one computer? Come on, be a man for once in you pathetic racist bigot Italian life.
We cannot believe we are still blogging with a mad freak like youself. And what makes you think you are blogging with men?? Little fyi you been bitched slapped. Your stupided inbred goat banging greek freak
yeah, right – WE ARE THE BORG! Man, I almost hate myself for being so good at exposing Italian bigot weasels. Happy anchovies dipping jerk!
Oh wait that’s right your Greek women are not suppose to be smart or have brains. Oh by the way we girls just want you to know from personal experience italian men need anchovie barrels not jars for there private peters if you know what I mean. Yeah baby!
So, you’re saying that girls like you like dicks as big as barrels.
Yeah we know you don’t like yourself. And it gives us great pleasure for exposing the bigot you are. Oh by the way not only are Italian men good with their peters they know how to pleasure women with other things as well only black men come close.
Yeah, I find the fact that you like dicks big as barrels very enlightening. Explains a lot. Thank you.
Really how so?
Now we are getting to the bottom of all your problems it’s penis envy you have of course!
never saw anyone dig his own grave as well as you do – lol
And how are we digging are own grave?
By saying that you like dicks as big as barrels for example. lol — gotta admit that was as stupid as it gets.
No Fotios that just a weak reasonse when you obviouly have been put in your place. And I did not know you are a treker Borg? Really Fotios?! Yeah you could say you are out of this world
And by the way what’s with this HIS still can’t get over there are women blogging your sorry behind. So not only are you a bigot your a sexist too, and the reason I may have made smart remarks about Greeks was in response to yours remarks not the other way around.
Fotios we did not say that we like penises as large as barrels. Wrong again Einstein. You obviously take things out of context and literally.
By barrels we ment that some men from certain cultures are know to be well endowed and know how to use their endowment well among other things.
I have an Italian girlfriend but I am going to separate from her because I am ready to get married. I dont think I would marry her because I dont want my kids to ever be ridiculed or feel out of place. She a great girl but it can never work. I have to make a decision soon but I think Its gonna be hard for me but we have no future. Shes Italian and am black.
Hey Jake, is it really that bad? Do you live in Italy? It would be a real shame to end a great relationship just because of other people’s prejudices. In my opinion you can never avoid your kids being ridiculed or feeling out of place. I now have a one-year-old son who’s biracial and I think the most you can do is to give them a strong sense of pride in their identity so that other people’s opinions become irrelevant… Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
What does she think about having a mixed race children in Italy jake? It’s sad to leave her for this reason. You could think of moving abroad..
Hey Giro, I was born in the UK and live outside London with her. Its not just what other people think, My sister is married to a white English man and have two lovely girls. Two years ago they traveled to Italy and had a very bad experience. My nieces were 11 and 12 at the time and told me stuff I don’t even wanna get into. It was such an experience that they vowed not to ever return to Italy unless they really had to. I don’t want my kids to ever feel the way my nieces felt, it left a scare on there hearts. I can Imagine my kids being ridiculed whilst visiting relatives in the streets even though they are half Italian. I think its not Italians fault entirely, they are not used to seeing black people in their country. The culture is also very differ in Italy compared to the UK/Canada /USA, there are many factors why they prejudice. My girlfriends parents were shocked to hear what I did for a job including my rank. I had to gently remind them that I live in the UK where where someones skills are measured on merit and not skin color. I love her so much but the Dont’s out way the Do’s. Our kids if we I did marry her would never feel welcome by their mothers culture and country. I would want them to be proud to say I am half Italian and Black British. I am 26yrs ,going places and made great strides in terms career but I now need to get a woman I want to spend my life with and I feel bad to admit its not gona be my girlfriend. I better live soon, she might find me on this page.
Hey Jake, thanks for your reply. What a tough call to have to make. I’d like to try an persuade you otherwise but I totally get your sentiments. While you can brace your kids for a racist world you’d at least want their extended family to be free from prejudice… How do you get on with your girlfriend’s family? Here’s hoping you haven’t been found out as yet and can still post 😉
Hey there, She had to go mate, I wana get marrried and she was a great girl but the culture and way of thinkin southern europeans like the Italians is differ and doesnt serve my best interest.
And thanks for confirming the same abouts Greeks for not only being the biggest Racist in Europe but the most hateful jealous a**holes on the face of the planet. Opah Mate
Well, now you can tell us how I confirmed that. We all know how you did. In fact you have just admitted it by not contesting my accusation. “Opah”? Did you mean “Oprah”?
Hi Everyone, I am the living testament who’s been living in Lombardia, Valtellina for the past 6 years. I am a True Blooded Filipina and Married to an Italian who doesn’t know how to speak a straight English and I am glad that I divorced Him … IGNORANCE, ARROGANCE and SELFISH people on the planet. The first time I was landed here was a Big Mistake. We live at his mothers Roof which is 24/7 looking after his SON! che palle! The mother and Son Relationship is Terrible and Over Exaggerated. and Yes its true, the Mamma is still controlling the everyday expenses as well as my Groceries! and the salary of my husband is also controlling by her Stupid Mother! Im glad that I am now starting my life in Milano and soon I will be back in the Philippines after my Divorce Papers is Finished. Grazie Dio!!!!
Jake i feel you 1000% if thats possible least your being true to your self.I ‘am Black and had the same experience with a Italian girl.So my hart goe’s out to you bruv i had the same experience 17 years ago.I now know i made the right decision there is 98% chance that your life would be hell.Thats from one black man to another .!!!
Italy is ranked the most racist country in the European Union, according to nation-wide value and attitude surveys. I have myself lived in 4 different countries, and never have I been so badly treated as in Italy (I live in Florence); and I’m still blonde and western. It’s not uncommon that e.g. random taxi drivers, or even educated lefties, talk openly about how much they hate the Lebanese immigrants, and violence against black people is not uncommon. They also seem to have a hatred for Americans (which I know, since I’m often firstly taken for American..).
I concur 100%
From someone living here 8 years. (economical reasons)
It’s not only blacks. True black people leaving here are in HELL but – more or less – if you’re not Italian – you WILL hear racist comments and/or be discriminated at some point.
Generally – the poorer the country – the worst the comments. This not apply to blacks – here country doesn’t matter. (“since all blacks are monkeys so…”)
I’m Polish and overall they accept me (probably because of Giovanni Paolo 2) BUT from time to time I hear some stupid comments and it DOES ….maybe not hurt but it reminds me that I’m not one of them.
And THAT hurts because you and try and try , you study their grammar, you learn they culture…and they just dont care …
Sometimes they try hard to make you look like a dumbass – even if you speak perfect italian – they will speak to you slowly and in infinitive. (how retarded is that)
If you wanna live here and dont take any crap – two things.
1.) Forget your culture – fake Italian accent, dress like them and act like them. Even if they will suspect something – it’s going to take time and that is enough to avoid any dumb comments.
And if they are someone you’re going to see on daily basis – that’s not a problem. Most of them – even the racist – change their mind after realizing you’re basically the same as them.
2.) Screw the 007 Italian approach above and prepare to take a crap with amount depending on:
– your skin color
– your IT language/accent skills
– PKB of your country
– your way of walking/acting/charisma
And trust me on this – you WILL take crap.
Another thing – pedophiles.
It’s almost normal. They dont hide. 12 years old+ ? Good to go.
Maybe that what scared some comment author above me? (with 11 and 12 daughters)
I worked in places with 12-15 year old girls and ALMOST ALL of mens visiting whether uncles or clients, parents (ALL) were giving them THAT look – sometimes making nasty comments and flirting with them. I shit you not. Gotta see it to believe it.
Hell a guy I worked with propose my boss (at that time father of two girls 8 and 14) to go to a 15 yo prostitute – just like that – like it would be normal.
And I WAS THERE!!!! A guy he knew for a year!!! I dont know if he didn’t realized what the fuck he was talking about or just plain stupid.
As soon as I can – going back to Poland. Even if it’s grey and poorer.
Because folks – the truth is only one. If you wanna live in dignity and feel like home….you need to go back to your home…
UK, Italy, Spain, whatever – you’re always an outsider…
Whether it’s the price you’re willing to pay – it’s up to YOU but if you’re on this page reading this comment – maybe you already got the answer…
Hey, thanks for taking the time to share your experiences! It’s really interesting to get a take on the issue from someone who experiences being different in Italy for reasons other than race. But more importantly is that photo of you? If so wow! I’m speechless!! 😉
err…that’s not me – I used the twitter option cos I can’t remember my WordPress account password 😛 (not far away though)
Ill add another thing.
Rich tourists are ripped of HARD and I mean HARD. Even when buying fruits. It common to raise the price “on-the-go” as soon as the vendor notice an English speaking person.
Apples 1.5? Charge 2,5 .
It’s best to go with an Italian or someone living there. Also when buying things – negotiate. The price (way too high) includes negotiation reduction.
Ofcourse not for bread or renting a car but for souvenirs – almost always.
And another funny thing is that sometimes I met other foreigners (Morocco and Ukraine) acting like racist Italians – talking to me in “bossly” manner – in presence of other Italians.
Laughable.
Also I did had a relationship and it was beautiful. Parents of the girl were educated and had no problems.
We even went to France on vacation all together. (after they knew me 2 months)
Only Her uncle was a bit skeptical and it took me…3 days for him to like me.
Her mother clearly wanted “something” from me. You know what I mean.
Said that maybe my opinion isn’t an indicator of things because I’m attractive and Italians are VERY sensitive to beauty.
Moreover I learned the accent, costumes and gestures and now i cant remember the last time i had any racist moment.
As said by others – if you’re white you will make things work for you IF YOU WANT. But if you’re black you’re fu….
Although I know a black guy having a photo shop and another one being a priest. Often see him with other Italians on the plaza talking and laughing. Isolate cases?
But I live in Naples. Here racism have a very basic form. If they hate you – they hate you but they have trivial reasons for it. “there’s just too much of them”
Going up it get’s more “sophisticated”. People have precise reasons, ideologies and as they have generally more money (than Naples and vicinity) – they automatically feel right about it. (“i have money – I’m smart, and right” logic)
Italy is a beautiful country, and it requires time and work to get into social life 100%.
It does pay off and I’m meeting great people.
It just that it will never feel like home.
im so glad you approved italos comment so people can see how zenophobic italy is. its not only people of a different race that have a problem here any foreigner is going to always be marginal. ive been here 10 years. i married an italian, and I hate this society which I gave my all too, for 10 years ive given soooo much to italy and paid so much tax so italains can pay none. my father came to italy to liberate these btards in 1945, as part of the allied forces. i used to be so proud of that. now i wish they had been left to suffer under the person that they supported,hitler.
they were the only country in Europe who is not grateful for the sacrifice the allies made to liberate them from nazi domination,
they never chose sides and they never deserved the liberation.
i cant wait to leave this facist degraded piece of shite they call a county, all my foreign friends have left before me. Im next. they took eveything and gave me nothing, they will in the future starve to death , and they deserve to. Educated and decent italains who have immigrated to other places, will all tell you that
. Only the worst of the worst remain in this country that invented the biggest evil on earth “the catholic church, who have and still are, raping miilions of children across the world, not to mention the untold suffeing they cause in Africa with their no condom pope rule so HIV has ravaged Africa.
Italians are racist with everyone who doesn’ t fit with the nazi-fascist idea of the white race included those Italians (mostly from South Italy) who look arabic
Italy = NAZITALIA
Hi Everyone,
After reading all the comments on this page, it makes me really sad that racism is such a big issue! I grew with an innate belief that all people, no matter what color you are, what language you speak, what country of origin you are from, whether you are ugly, fat, beautiful, or skinny; that we are all created equal. We are all brothers and sisters!!! I love learning about different cultures, languages, food, history, etc. I find it intriguing to see how different people develop these subjects throughout their history. I know racism is still alive but when can we (the human race) see past the color and treat all people with respect! It’s always someone trying to out compete others. I’ve never been to Italy, but I’ve always wanted to see the beauty of this country, but the comments leave me very reluctant to go now. If the majority of Italians truely are this demeaning to “outsiders”, why do they accept tourists?!?! Isn’t tourism one of the biggest economy boosters for the Italians? Also, for the Christians (I was raised Catholic) doesnt the bible say that God created Adam and Eve, and if that is your ideology, aren’t we all born from Adam and Eve?!?! Does that not mean we are all brothers and sisters!?!? I know this sounds super corny, but people should look at color as they do the miracles of a rainbow in all it’s beauty and glory. All the colors represented together after a period of rainy darkness. We have more in common with each other than differences. We live, we eat, we grow, and we die. Appreciate the time you have here and love ALL people! Above all, follow the golden rule: Treat people as you would have them treat you.
Best wishes to all(including racist, bigots, and ignorant people)
Italians are a highly evolved and cultured People. Of course they are racist. O nly am ideological fool would not be.
Well, not so much evolved, advanced or cultured any more by anyone’s standards. They lost the progress train somewhere in the 70s. Time to start being racist against themselves I guess.
Frankly speaking Fotios Italians have always been racist, they got racist during the Mussolini fascist era in the 30s and since then they never stopped being racist.
I remember when I first came in Italy in the summer of 1968 for a couple of months, people refused to serve me in a bar cause I’ m black, they insulted me in the streets, I got called negro 4 or 5 times in a day.
The only difference is in that era there wasn’ t internet so people didn’ t know how racist Italy was.
Thank God for the Internet! One of the reasons Italians hate progress is exactly that – progress means more information in the hands of the people and that includes information that they have been carefully censoring, through their connections in traditional media, for generations.
I am sorry Ira. The sad thing is that it’s not really changed – mostly because as you can read from this blog – they are in continuous denial. Maybe if they could accept that “Italiani – NON SEMPRE Brava Gente”… they could look in the mirror and start working on things. Any psychologist would say that the first step in therapy is confession of one’s mis-deeds and flaws. Maybe we should start an AA sort of 12 step programme. Instead of “Hello, my name is John and I am an alcoholic” – we could try “Ciao, sono Gianni e sono un razzista”. It might work. I love my Italian friends but a nation so full of themselves and their own importance is hard to deal with. I struggle with some Americans but manage to find those who are self-critical in spite of patriotism. In Italy – even the ones who criticise the government and blame it for all the ills of Italian society suffer profoundly from what they call “campanilismo”.. which is a form of prejudice towards those from other regions and then degenerates into racism. Sad.
Another thing,Italians – It’s easy enough to say -“Everyone is doing it, every country has the same problems, the British and French are worse than us, etc. etc. ” ad nauseam. The fact remains is that racism and other prejudices are a big problem in Italy. What difference does it make to say “others are doing it too”. Does it make any of it less wrong? I’ve had South African friends apologise to me for things which were done to me when I was little by people from their nation. They did not have anything to do with it directly; they were also children back then – but I found their humility endearing and it became easy to forgive and try to move on from the bad memories. Why not accept the “national” fault in all this, the national guilt, apologise, and try to make a difference? I think the defensiveness in the end, at least for me, confirms the fact that you all know too well that it’s a very deeply rooted problem. Don’t let pride get in the way of having a multi-cultural, enriched life with friends and loved ones from all over the world.
Teaching Italians a lesson
Wow in between doing house chores and other things I’ve taken almost an entire day to finish reading the comments on this blog, I’m floored by what I have read.
I am Haitan American, and am a working single-mom. I’ve started work on a fictional novel and started doing some research for a story that will take place in Italy. I’ve been excited about learning about Italy and immersing myself gingerly by watching italian films and listening to italian music (Rapidly became a fan Mina Mazzini-yes I know, old school). I’ve read many blogs by black women talking about their experiences living and or visiting Italy so far I’ve gotten some positive feed backs, and have read current news on some political leaders and general all round things happening, but I had been searching for more meat and boy did these comments deliver a lot of information.
So far from what I’ve gathered, although not true in all cases, outward shows of racism are definitely prevalent in Italy towards blacks as well as anyone foreign. Reading blogs and other personal accounts it seems most people who have traveled abroad to many different countries seem to have had worst experiences of racism in Italy when compared to other European countries.
I was aware of the xenophobe ideals but was completely taken aback by some of the experiences read here. Born and raised in the US I’ve heard of racism and know it exist here but I have not ever had a racial slur said my way, at least not in my presence, or been blatantly told due to my skin color I couldn’t do certain things.
This blog and its comments have been seriously eye opening. I’ve thought of Italy ideally as friendly people. Although nothing beats one’s own experience but reading many other’s experiences and the sad negative similarities for many blacks it gives me definite hesitation on visiting. Lets just say I received my dose of a realty check.
Melusina, don’t worry about Italy, Italians are only racist against blacks or half blacks and as I can see from your photo you are not black or dark skinned so you will have no problem in Italy.
Italians also don’t like dark skinned races like Indians or Pakistans but White foreigners and the light skinned North Asians (Japanese, Chinese,) are treated fine.
I read most of the comments in this blog and I just wanted to share some of my experiences as a 24 year-old ‘brown guy’ from India who happens to be a student in Milan in one of the supposedly most reputed technical university of Italy.Having studied in Israel ,US & India;I can say for sure that the Italian education system doesn’t encourage you to think ‘out of box’ rather it relies on spoon-feeding and rote-learning (and we are talking about engineering!).They train you to be good exam takers.Most of my classmates have no skills and you won’t be seeing them turning into entrepreneurs anytime soon.And yet the Italians think they have the best education in the world!Makes me feel that they have been brain-washed.My classmates do not want to go abroad to study because they have been ‘in the system for too long’ and thus cannot adapt to new educational system.Seriously?It’s a very sad day for a country when the youngsters think that since they cannot change anything so they shouldn’t demand for any change.One of the many reasons there won’t be a revolution in Italy for a change like it happened in 2011 in India for anti-corruption laws,a case in point.
The professors act high and mighty and you cannot challenge them and if you ask too many question you are branded a nuisance.This one professor actually told me that he will ‘destroy’ me if I don’t agree to his point of view!Another of my professors asked me once out loud in the class at random that why wasn’t I a Colombian like my friend since I was brown too.Yes,he said that! I was shocked.Then another professor (a sort of big shot with lot of “power” in the department) told to the class that one of the innovative design from Indian Space Agency was typical of a poor country.I think at some point my professors stopped learning.They are old fossils refusing to change or accept new breakthroughs.And it reflects in the society.
Even the academic rules and regulations are so strange even for my standards having experienced Indian bureaucracy in India.For e.g.,they offer ‘cash’ scholarships to foreign students (I’m one of the recipients) but then you are made to sign a contract to stay in one of the student residences owned by some “mysterious private entity” in outskirts of Milan,yet, you are charged double the normal rate.In the end,you get 5% of the original amount as a one-time check.You cannot change the residence,if you do so you stand to lose the scholarship.Makes you think that even the educational system is run by the Mafia!We are 5 foreign students,out of which 3 of us quit half way since we couldn’t take it anymore.The university promised an international program in English. Turns out the professors are still averse to speaking in English and you have to deal with the system.
This is just a glimpse of the educational system.
I certainly do not paint the whole country as racist but it does seem to have a lot of them.I get stares (not the innocent curious stares that I got in Amsterdam and Stockholm but ‘the oh another immigrant’ stare) in the metro and most Italians think I am a flower-seller or something.I remember vividly once this Italian girl shooed away my other Indian friend when he approached her to ask for direction.She thought he was selling her something.And this friend of mine happens to a rocket scientist and was a regular tourist who was lost! I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t have happened to a ‘white’ foreigner.Another time,the Italian police picked me and my other brown latino friends for extra checks,he treated us really bad as if we were illegals,asked us if we had stolen some iphones even though we told him we were students and clearly couldn’t speak Italian.I always get picked up for extra checks out of all the other who are let off without even a look at their papers whenever I cross the border to Switzerland by train.And these are just some of the incidents!
But as a young,openly gay man,you would meet the worst of the racist lot when you go online on a dating site.There you will get to hear comments such as ‘you are too brown for me’,’I like only white blond guys’,’I don’t like Indians,Asians’.I don’t think these are preferences…these are sexual segregation based on racial and ethnic backgrounds.But I cannot single Italy alone this also happens in other predominantly white countries.This is something that I wanted to share since I heard someone say that Milan is cosmopolitan and open-minded.Actually,it isn’t really.
Hey Sanjay, thanks so much for taking the time to share your experiences. It sounds like you’re having a nightmare in Milan! It’s sad.
I lived in the city almost a decade ago and it’s disheartening to hear that the situation has worsened (at that time I found the Milanese to be a bit more open-minded and less ‘provincial’ than people in other smaller towns and cities).
Have you made any Italian friends? Have you thought about joining or starting a union for South Asian students at your university? It might be one way for you to raise your concerns about you and your colleagues experiences at a higher level. After all if you and others like you are coming to these universities at great expense, only to find you’re facing racism it should be a concern to the directors that you could take action to convince your other students back home to avoid choosing Italy as a destination of study as it’s just too racist!
Despite all your troubles, I hope you’re enjoying the summer break and thanks again for commenting!
Thank you very much ,Sanjay. I’m an Indian myself and was contemplating moving to
Italy for my engineering degree. But after all that you have said of Italy, I’m avoiding that place for sure.
IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE ITALIANS STAY OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY
THE ITALIAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THEIR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY DESTROYED
BY ALL YOU WANDERING LOST SOULS.STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND RUN FOR OFFICE AND SELL YOUR WARES.WE WANT ITALY TO STAY THE WAY OUR ANCESTORS LEFT IT. THANK YOU!
Well, we can discuss that when Italians stay out of other countries as well. I am in South Africa right now and here there’s like a lot of Italians working and doing business. So what’s up with that dude?